26

Re: about data storage

Hello, Ops, you wrote: Ops> And it is is specific on a subject, in due time I was engaged in one data collection system, them was for those times much, and all of them went to archive, at first generally on CD and on a tape. Here then such box could be good help. For certain somewhere and now there are similar tasks, but most likely it is any narrow areas. Once and neurocomputing was narrow area. Well for whom the technology of the decision of the task of approximation of functions of hundreds and thousand variables can be necessary such entirely ? On mind any absolutely exotic things in which scientists absolutely torn off from a reality in the not finished scientific research institutes are engaged came. The maximum that long time of really useful was possible to achieve from  is an estimation of probability of reset of the credit under answers to a banking questionnaire. On the contrary. Here you are determination   on a photo from phone. Or prismatic mockeries at photos on a fun to audience. Or the robot-driver. Or that for us still prepare in bowels of research centers. So a variant "now it is possible to download  all serials" it everything is explicit not that it would be possible to expect from such lethal piece, as finding  on address space. For certain it could be a bomb which would jerk in absolutely unexpected data domain. Generally, all subject was born from this that I reflected, and what useful  could be expected in case the physics makes the next break. Understood that to a head come in the imagination core on transport subjects. Any teleportations through  holes and an other hogwash on a subject of relocation of loads in space. Very similar on how the peasant would dream of the magic balance, which itself water from a well will drag, but to guess a waterpipe which and is more convenient and more functional, this peasant would not have not enough thinking latitude. And that after all the physics by the sweat of the brow develops, but already some time somehow so, what questions "and what for it is all? Whether" and "it is possible from this activity though any useful output?" Receive answers ever less

27

Re: about data storage

Hello, Stanislaw K, you wrote: SK> It is good, when you supervise all flash cards. And after all such flash card will stand is mandatory in everyone wifi, routers, routers, on firewall on two. SK> how to be dataful  on transit communication centers? By the way, here and the useful application of a flash card. No, not espionage for citizens, and protection given by enciphering on a method of a code notepad. If Alisy and the Bean have two identical bottomless flash cards hammered identical  they can organize such channel with which even it is theoretically impossible to crack. Any even divine . Still Shannon proved  a code notepad.

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Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: S> And here boxes with it looks approximately so. Stop promotion of that it is necessary to whom follows S> If seriously simply take the usb-modem. By all your criteria approaches, the main thing not to go deep into nuances;) And you represent, what substances offered those dudes who deduced radio-waves from Maxwell's equations? Maxwell did not check in their possibility, and till the end of the life searched for an error in the equations. Such affairs.

29

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> And you represent, what substances offered those dudes who deduced radio-waves from Maxwell's equations? Maxwell did not check in their possibility, and till the end of the life searched for an error in the equations. Such affairs. Ugu-ugu, idea of Faraday, did not trust (but the Hertz checked up), and Maxwell searched for an error. Here something I will not remember to unwinding anything, except an ether (and that with great reserve,  the ether was used as analogy) that it is possible last to attribute in errors. Is ?

30

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> Basically, there is much that physical that is measured by real numbers. For example, distance. Distance between two made a pencil  on wooden  - a real number, data capacity it is infinite as this flash card. Of a tree such memory, of course, you will not make. Arrived of depths of space the gamma quantum will already import everyone  in any 20th - 30th sign after a comma. And generally, the space size is not necessary, because, speak, the space is quantized (a subject "the Planck length") is called. And time is not necessary for the same reason, therefore to encode bottomless  in any period of any oscillations too without chances. And here, for example, directions are not quantized. At least, about any steps in anisotropism of our space I did not hear. And it means that information depth of a corner between vectors anything fundamental and quantum is not restricted. A fair set member "R". As far as I understand, a variant with corners - not unique (it simply the first that came to mind), and in this history that the bottomless flash card is not theoretically impossible piece is important only. It is possible to measure corners in the mathematician indeed with any accuracy. But in the mathematician. As to a reality if it is vacuum without any particles or rays - that on its basis in any way it is impossible to create elements which can accept values 0 or 1 - it is simple because there are no elements. If there though any particles are, we leave at once from a mathematical model where the big accuracy is possible however , to the discrete model with step-type behavior at least there are less sizes of this particle.

31

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: PD>> Any program aspires to occupy all accessible storage. S> here there will be problems, I unsubscribed near the Author: Sinix Date: 29.09 20:28. I not about that. As to these terrible levels - it quite agree, and even itself it is a little on this subject the Author wrote http://rsdn.org/forum/philosophy/6568388.1: Pavel Dvorkin Date: 30.09 06:00 But here on the order (and can, and on 2) magnification, I think, still probably. That is those 30, and even 300 Tb on a desk - why also are not present? And if it really happens - hammer in them, god sees. Give only these terabytes, and than to hammer - find.

32

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: S> And, yes that I wanted to tell: companion Savaof,  also take away the USB killer to it is cut by censorship in order to avoid reversal to byte # 10 36.... After discovery omega-space  exists as the independent non-material system implemented on calibrated omega-compacts,  as uniform is infinite-connected an omega-compact with zero DEG-BALANCE. Communication with computer systems is carried out through an omega-controlers of computers of the earth and extraground assembly. The primary source is easily googled.

33

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> Speed - not other-wordly, but approximately at level USB-shnyh of flash cards. I.e. some tens MB a second on chtenie/zapis. It approximately 1-2 petabytes in a year. It about what generally, unique application which occurs to me - life logging, but also here all the same it is necessary to do  periodic for absolutely reliable devices of storage do not happen (particles everyones space, whether know). Well and so, for data storage this piece will unite all the same in arrays to increase speed, it will differ a little from a today's state of affairs.

34

Re: about data storage

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> it is possible to measure Corners in the mathematician indeed with any accuracy. But in the mathematician. As to a reality if it is vacuum without any particles or rays - that on its basis in any way it is impossible to create elements which can accept values 0 or 1 - it is simple because there are no elements. If there though any particles are, we leave at once from a mathematical model where the big accuracy is possible however , to the discrete model with step-type behavior at least there are less sizes of this particle. The sizes of a particle is a talk about the linear size. And I speak about corners. For corner obtaining we divide the microscopic size of a particle into length of a vector which can already be quite macroscopic. Too, of course, not absolutely  it turns out much, but here we recall that there are the processes possessing the strong nonlinearity when monstrously small initial deviations through some iterations give as much as big deviations in value of result. Quite suits "rise" of values from depths of a long-predlinnogo tail of signs after a comma. It yet does not give us infinity because on rise of signs it is necessary to waste time, even if this rise very-preochen fast. Whether there is something such, what would give the chance to us to be cut through at once ,  it is necessary? It is possible for example, to recall about fractals. If the physics on a course of the researches finds in depths of a reality something possessing the fractal nature (it is impossible what in any way to eliminate), here it the answer. Now for a science the processes having in the true and [potentially inexhaustible fractal chaos - the present scourge divine. They do not give in to the full modeling/forecasting. But who forbids these demonic properties of these monsters to exploit in the interests? Generally, sense of all this branch at all in checking up, how much the audience well remembers courses of physics and mathematics. On it by and large to spit. One of senses - in appreciating, whether there was in the people specific  a grasp cutting invention at any hint on appearance of unknown possibility new hitherto. Alas, result while the pitiable. The instant start of response "lag behind with these nonsenses, such generally it is impossible" it is watched in all beauty, and flight of inventive imagination does not turn on. Whether a habit to work purely on , whether deeply eaten provinciality of thinking. I do not know. We look further.

35

Re: about data storage

Hello, Glory, you wrote: S>> And, yes that I wanted to tell: companion Savaof,  also take away the USB killer to it is cut by censorship in order to avoid reversal to byte # 10 36.... After discovery omega-space  exists as the independent non-material system implemented on calibrated omega-compacts,  as uniform is infinite-connected an omega-compact with zero DEG-BALANCE. Communication with computer systems is carried out through an omega-controlers of computers of the earth and extraground assembly. Thus - a heap of restrictions on information update, the unique version on all... As I understood, one favor - the instant propagation on adjacent planets and the ships in flight. At presence zero the favor of it is insignificant. The primary source is easily googled. I and did not understand, what for it were required to it , but result any senseless in all senses, excuse for an involuntary pun.

36

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: S> At  slightly it is more than digit, the address mbyte gives us of 2 1024*1024*8 byte of happiness all gift and let nobody leaves. As to us kindly prompts wolphram aplha, it approximately 10 ^ (10^6.402299672617242) or S> S>10^2525222.62986683397346716841025893098279731224613237295 byte (1) S> S> Should suffice. S> * I do not know, what prefix selects IEC for this number, but jobi - there will be exact. In BER for ASN.1 as much as possible representable integer number turns out, if length of length - 127, length in this case 2 ** 1016-1, and number... Somewhere in the same limits that you describe. Nevertheless, nobody forbids to represent there such cases. How you think, why? S> we Will consider that we reached recording density one atom - one bit, for silicon in one sm 3 finds room 2,65*N Avogadro/28.1 S> or 5.6772241992882562277580071174377224199288256227758007 * 10^22 bits. Well, or 10 21 byte.  Finishing to the point of irrationality is actually very good inventive reception, in TRIZ it is used practically continually. It is not necessary to estimate adequacy of an assumption till the certain moment, instead it is necessary to consider that from it follows. One of axioms from the developer - in technical process where support for a detail on the machine tool was road and it could not be cut, its price nullified and looked that from it sharp simplification turns out, and then already proceeding from perspectivity of result found a cheap variant of support (a detail flood in foam plastic).  goes by same means. You instead start to tell, how it . And ? (By the way, what for stopped on atom? There are everyones .)

37

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: S> Is ?  will not be. Let those who likes their smell rummage in old rags. I do not remember, where about it read, and to search for laziness. Perhaps, at Lie Smolina, and can be, somewhere else. Anyway the idea to walk on wood situated near Moscow and to conduct conversation for life with the person who is in Australia, still any 150 years ago was impassable clinical nonsense. Absolutely impossible thing contradicting all available common sense.

38

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> we Assume, development of technologies of data storage reached that the Chinese vendor for the reasonable price (for example, $100) started to sell boxes in which the unlimited number byte is located. V> that is as the address in not the number of the fixed digit capacity (now fashionably 32 or 64 bits), and a file there is transferred. Transferred byte - APPRX. Transferred kilobyte - suits. Transferred address mbyte - too without problems. Yes though gigabyte. Both we write, and it is readable in style "random access". Speed - not other-wordly, but approximately at level USB-shnyh of flash cards. We estimate time of an urgency of the typical information outside of any collections of classical texts, patterns and video (which at all their amount  are restricted). We take information transfer rate at level "USB flash cards" (well, we we approximate to 100MB/sec), we assume a constant  to the Internet. We raise time of an urgency of the information till 100 years (exaggeration in times). We receive 315 petabyte. It is more home computer, but the cluster in the big apartment "is easily reached at level of possibilities". An output: without the transit velocity extension (can, also direct communication of such boxes with each other) its limitlessness is not claimed. V> actually a question: with you to the world of information technologies appearance of such box can cause what changes in ours? V> it is clear that those tasks which at all had before no decision, become the ordinary. Interesting, what? V> well, there will be a possibility to conduct   as in one of series "Black mirror". But it is boring and not so interesting. What powerful and   it would be possible to create, having such artifact? If without   - prepropagation of the information of all types. If only into the same channel got. All newspapers/magazines, popular with , Wikipedia, etc. Often bought software, games. proprietarnoe / License - it will be flooded under the password, the password is bought. But, I am afraid, it is all too "boringly and it is uninteresting". I suggest to add in this circuit one more assumption (here the colleague quoted a passage about , it somewhere nearby). Namely - existence of the general pool of the data. Can be made in two variants: or the simply common space on everything, or possibility to be addressed to any to any box to resources which are opened for access. Result - the full changeover of communication channels by dialogue of these means. And here further - it is necessary to think about their direct connection to a brain

39

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> how much the audience well remembers courses of physics and mathematics... On it by and large to spit... V> deeply eaten provinciality of thinking. I do not know. We look further. , it not philosophy, and the most trite  already From discharge "I do not want this your physics, I want pleasantly and beautifully". I do not know as to hint easier, but creation of a similar piece will be a consequence of a heap of other breaks among which precisely will conditionally infinite gratuitous energy, antigravity, metamaterials and gratuitous high-temperature superconductors. Also transforms a society it much more noticeable initial . As nuclear power in reply to "and here fire wood never would come to an end". , besides bonuses also  will be.

40

Re: about data storage

Hello, netch80, you wrote: N> Topikstarter goes by same means. You instead start to tell, how it . And ? Well, i.e.  demands width of the address in mbyte, and to count, how many it occupies == to tell about , apprx. Generally initial point was in the following: "if we have such piece -  this your information? Here much more  it is possible to create things!" But me the course of your thoughts is pleasant

41

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> it is clear that those tasks which at all had before no decision, become the ordinary. Interesting, what? Generally, personally for me, absence of this restriction releases from necessity to remember this restriction. And let even if I never will exceed volume of all in two terabytes.

42

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: <skipped> Wanted to answer, but Sinix already answered, I am better I will not write. V> alas, result while the pitiable. The instant start of response "lag behind with these nonsenses, such generally it is impossible" it is watched in all beauty, and flight of inventive imagination does not turn on. Whether a habit to work purely on , whether deeply eaten provinciality of thinking. I do not know. We look further. Probably, at someone the flight of fancy also will be played by idea reviewing "imagine, what the perpetuum mobile where it to use is created?", but me something would not be desirable to strain the imagination to consider that at least at the given stage of development of a science is considered impossible even if I thereby show dense provinciality of the thinking there Will be once other science - there will be also flights of fancy.

43

Re: about data storage

Hello, netch80, you wrote: N> Finishing to the point of irrationality is actually very good inventive reception, in TRIZ it is used practically continually.... N> Topikstarter goes by same means. You instead start to tell, how it . And ? Here-just about. I about the same. Children, all of us here technicians. Others here simply is not found. And the technician is generally who such? That dude whom the only thing what is able is to be guided in directories of finished articles? No, my friends, such dude is at the best the commodity researcher, but more often - the selling assistant. The technician creates. Result of its activity is what was not. From the point of view of banal common sense the reason of that it yet was not, there can be only that such generally is impossible. Or it is absolutely not necessary. Or both that, and another simultaneously. But we spit on logic and obstinately we do the part. We construct the future, which else is not present. The buyer comes to shop, and to it the selling assistant tells that is, and that is not present. The buyer buys that is. And we always work with what is not present. Imagine that to you the ancient friend-businessman came and speaks: "Greetings, the dude. Heard? Bottomless  now it not only silly women cooled by liquid helium in size with a dump-body truck. , let out last weeks a batch such . In a pocket is located. I through the good acquaintance to myself snatched one feature. Promise to glut the market in half a year. Concerning usage of this happiness while nobody invented anything better as everywhere cameras  and for all to spy. Well and, of course, all porno at itself to collect. More shortly, from you idea, and from me the start capital and . Profit in halves. ?" .?

44

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> Children, all of us here technicians. V> I want from you idea for business. Confuses nothing?

45

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: I here that think - if a flash card not a fake, and  the certificated magician, on similarity of a bottomless bag - that no problems with density should be. And to apply such flash cards naturally to search will be true also juicy photos, after all to initialize a flash card industrially for finite time it is impossible - accordingly if to be knocked on  to the address - it is possible to find in passing also all secrets of the Universe. However, on the basis of responses of users, the vendor already corrected defects of the first versions, eliminating a smell of an ether and nullified the first 10^36 pages.

46

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: S> I do not know as to hint easier, but creation of a similar piece will be a consequence of a heap of other breaks among which precisely will conditionally infinite gratuitous energy, antigravity, metamaterials and gratuitous high-temperature superconductors. Also transforms a society it much more noticeable initial . Aha. And also life eternal and prosperity universal. Bring this all to me and then, well, I will deign to think. Or I will not deign Jokes jokes, and application of such device for channel enciphering by a code notepad was already drew. Only was to add two assumptions enough: 1. Initially the storage is initialized . 2. By means of any artful quantum  storages can be cloned entirely. By the way, speculations about a code notepad via a bottomless flash card the thought that time gives rise to such business it in some is not strong  the limited volume implementablly already now. Two , hammered same  reliably are protected by traffic terabyte. Application of code notepads was not convenient that data storage was expensive, and now the situation  changed. Than to toil with a nonsense with a spacer of a separate optical fiber for quantum cryptography, easier personally to take . At least, it is not necessary to dig a trench. So though the initial message was from a category it "is impossible", but from it that is possible is cut.

47

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinix, you wrote: S> confuses Nothing? Absolutely confuses nothing. Personally for itself ideas than to be engaged, at me and so on ten lives suffices. Half with pleasure would give away, but all are completely occupied by momentary vanity, and further the nose do not wish to look. From two tablets it is stablly selected dark blue. On a horse-radish to me still any additional ideas for business?

48

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> Anyway idea to walk on wood situated near Moscow and to conduct conversation for life with the person who is in Australia, still any 150 years ago was impassable clinical nonsense. Absolutely impossible thing contradicting all available common sense. Anything similar. The first telegraph is 18 a century. To imagine that the channel will be expanded for a sound - anything difficult. Therefore communication was quite to itself within the limits of common sense - simply outside of technologies. In the same way, as well as possibility to construct skyscrapers: now does not quit, but the basic problems are not present. You do not understand that the information demands the carrier. The material carrier. , let us assume, you tired out photons in the resonator, and use a corner of polarization for information storage. We forget while that at measurement of a corner we have same problems, as at coordinate measurement - the uncertainty principle see. Let's assume that we can measure polarization corners infinitely precisely. We define Presence/absence of bit on photon presence/absence. Such box will weigh how many? , the photon mass is defined by its energy. It is small, but is not equal to zero. We multiply on  - we receive a collapse. To reduce energy of a photon indefinitely it is impossible - it leads to growth of length of a wave, and it is restricted by the sizes of the resonator. For any other particles there will be the same or is worse - the main ratios are saved.

49

Re: about data storage

Hello, Sinclair, you wrote: S> you do not understand that the information demands the carrier. The material carrier. Mandatory. Without variants. But further nuances of possible technical implementation begin. If the bit of the data is encoded by presence/absence there is nobody substances in somebody a space place bottomless storage in an any way it is impossible. Owing to, as they say, objective circumstances. For example, the flash card works that locks (or does not lock if not unit, and the zero) electrons in the transistors. Accordingly, the theoretical limit is an amount of available electrons. If the bit of the data is encoded by a state of the material object  object it is easily considered under the formula log 2 (N) where N - an amount of perceptible states. A logarithm, of course, terribly lazy function. Titanic efforts powerfully improved technology and magnification of it N twice, and what achieved? Received a scoring in 1 shameful bit. Fie. But it is not necessary to forget that the logarithm of fair infinity is equal to fair infinity. So if to find  fair infinity, and to it to stick, the task bottomless  appears solved. Very much that is measured in the physicist by real numbers. Some values, of course, not is fair real number. For example, an electrical charge. There all rests against an electron charge. But even if to discard all not the presents rial-nambery, all the same there will be still an abyss of the presents. It can frighten a little bit, but the material world is that that in its any small trifle sits and impudently to us the infinite variety grins. Now we are not able to place it to us in the service, but there are no fundamental reasons for that, as henceforth never can. S> for any other particles there will be the same or is worse - the main ratios are saved. About quanta and uncertainty I know. But this uncertainty even if it really is a sentence not subject to the appeal (now it in the status beautiful, repeatedly checked up, but nevertheless hypotheses), works with all rigidity inherent in it only on those objects for which it is formulated. To us forbade to know simultaneously pulse and particle position? , we will not be. At once three variants and the law to observe, and a candy to eat: 1. And the hell with him, with position. Absolutely not interesting. Let it will be "plus-minus infinity". We will be hooked to pulse and  there how many not laziness. 2. And the hell with him, with pulse. Let it will be any. In that side even we will not look. We will be  an occurrence. 3. And the hell with them, with positions and pulses of particles. On particles there are other fish in the sea. There are things, to which quantum theory any side not . For example, gravitation. Meanwhile all attempts to marry quanta with gravitation with a crash failed. Whether instead of  gravitation? Or, if with it too does not grow together, something else? The quantum theory - an outstanding piece. Eventually, it is extreme of the microcosmos physics, simultaneously possessing both property , and property of usefulness. Standard, for example, model of subatomic particles though and forged, but on the practical level certainly useless. And the string theory - so that simultaneously both useless, and not checked. But it is necessary to understand that the quantum theory - it is exact not the history end. Those professional physicists-theorists with whom remained though a droplet of intellectual honesty, recognize that they do not have any worthy explanation to that fact that the photon climbs at once through two holes. The scholastic approach "here the formula which works and which should be learned" - not for serious boys. A situation really ridiculous. At me on a nose the instrument exploiting wave properties of photons (points), but the world science has no that any distinct understanding as such  generally can work. Officially recognized open question. A problem? Yes in any time not a problem. The task. - - - - generally, a little bit thinking, came to a conclusion that actually in bottomless storage to use really any. Having capacious enough (petabytes) storage and limitation of throughput of the interface, it is possible to imitate easily by means of hash functions unlimited address space. Probability of that somebody sometime reveals fraud,  is small. The real need to store infinitely many bit appears if to learn only to operate with the data of the infinite digit capacity. At least them to add. It gives at once precedent of the infinite computing power, which it is possible to think how to use. It is really basic other computing technology. And from forgetting about a problem of shortage of a place on a hard, any considerably delightful vau-effect to receive it does not turn out.

50

Re: about data storage

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> By the way, here and the useful application of a flash card. No, not espionage for citizens, and protection given by enciphering on a method of a code notepad. If Alisy and the Bean have two identical bottomless flash cards hammered identical  they can organize such channel with which even it is theoretically impossible to crack. Any even divine . Still Shannon proved  a code notepad. Remains  this  for finite time.