Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> Here, we defined the most simple binary element are a relay with contacts on a breaking. Generally the relay will be more difficult than a lamp and on orders it is more difficult than the field transistor. It if all of us about complexity. S> that such especial in the relay with contacts on a breaking, what it is possible to construct the computing system of it? I will repeat in 3rd time - possibility to construct an element, satisfying to criteria of the Post. And this "element" in case of the relay consists from: - a pressure source; - a minimum of two relays working on a breaking; S> There the lever principle is used or still any physical phenomenon which not probably to replace? There non-linear f-ija, allowing to construct base for binary numeration through its combinatorial application. V>> in them the general reliability and cheapness in comparison with other technologies, certainly. S> and a physical principle if not to take in attention a price question? If you about a physical principle as electromagnetism, yes, it one of our kind. But, besides, it became popular because of cheapness and reliability (with what I began). Well and speed of propagation of changes of pressure in the electrical circuit is close to a velocity of light, and it is as much as possible achievable speed. Well it if to neglect //. But to neglect it turns out badly, therefore for transmission for a long time already optical calculators. However, this is orthogonal to your initial question. You after all did not ask about speed of calculations, you asked about their realizability. S> that for a physical principle allows them to be computing elements? (Including the maximum patience for the infinite repetition same) No especial physical principle here is present. The principle here especially mathematical, namely - certain non-linear f-ija allows to construct on its basis base binary numeration. For binary numeration are necessary: () the inverter (two hooked gear wheels under the circuit nearby is the elementary inverter), (b) two stable conditions of system (for a gear wheel will be - it is hooked/not is hooked) and () a method to combine input signals (for example, rotation of one gear wheel controls the fact of a linkage another). S> After all of one only condensers or resistors the computer to make it does not turn out, so? Analog calculators were under construction on condensers, coils and resistors. The first generation of rockets flied to space on analog computers. S> it is an element or the finished system? Dispute smoothly flows in ruthless, that is terminological? The relay is an element, or the finished system? The relay is an in itself most complicated system (depends on the point of view on system). Well and, on the individual relay you will construct nothing, their system for base formation (again and again) is necessary. S> We speak about an element. You tell it about "element" in attempts to simplify an event, . For simplification (abstractions) the mathematics is given us and I to you gave references to mathematical criteria. You walked on them? After all the same lamp or the transistor is, in turn, the most complicated systems, which consist of a heap of elements and the physical phenomena jointly participate in each such system some. For example, in a lamp: - effect of emmission of electrons; - effect of interaction of the charged particle and electric field; - effect of the linear superposition of electric fields; Further I return you on the guilty earth even more - the lamp controls a current, instead of pressure. But for control of a following lamp stage to us, , pressure is required. Therefore, that from a lamp current again to receive pressure, it load with the resistor, connecting this / the anode and supply plus. I.e., the system on a lamp turns out even more difficult, following physical phenomena in addition participate in it: - Finite (numerically) conductivity of materials; - proportionality of power failure on an explorer depending on a current transiting through an explorer. But also it is not enough of it! Single + form the circuit similar well-known for today to the circuit with an open collector. And it only the circuit NOT, that is is small for base. But "the circuit with an open collector" allows to load two and more keys with one resistor (to combine keys), receiving as a result binary f-iju (n) Or-NOT which is already sufficient for formation of base of binary calculation. You see, what difficult focus at if slightly to dig? Whether S> you can select a basic computing element of this system. The minimum basic computing element in such system will consist of two lamps and one resistor. No more simple (minimum) element will make any more base. Similarly with the transistor. Minimum two transistors under the circuit with the open collector (source), loaded on one resistor, will make base. One is bad - such circuit differs the lowest high-speed performance, just at level of high-speed performance of lamp circuits. Therefore, popularity was received by two-stroke circuits, for example, TTL. Under circuit TTL by the "active" signal has been selected logical "0" that was necessary for noise immunity on a supply. Therefore, the circuit implements reverse f-iju - (n) I-not which too suits base of binary numeration. 5 transistors participate in the minimum key TTL at us + 3 resistors + a minimum one diode: Yes, often draw one transistor with two emitters is it is equivalent to two transistors connected by collectors and bases. Input (protective) diodes can be neglected, but the day off - is mandatory, differently it does not turn out to close completely the upper output transistor in absence of a signal (0-lja) on an input. Not sickly such "the basic element" was drew, not? S> Well. Only for creation of the computer you will need to add to computing elements repeaters. From gain not to leave anywhere. It only for homogeneity of elements in the circuit. And if at us a certain circuit produces "unidirectional" calculations hinders nothing gradually to reduce scale of capacities in a direction from an input to an output. V>> system the dampfer-cylinder-piston. S> it is very good. And what main the phenomena help this system to become the calculator? It is very bad, when lose a conversation thread.) ) You asked the following: can select a key element in a paracart which produces gain? S> why the dampfer-tsilndr-piston can transform the information and a wheel is not present? The wheel can wonderfully transform the information. For example, can transform linear f-iju into a sine, a cosine or on the contrary - in and . S> too is both the cylinder and the dampfer and even the piston. That such magic in the cylinder and the dampfer, what without them it is impossible to fulfill calculations? Without them too it is possible. This business of specific implementation.