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Hello, Sinix, you wrote: S> Here to you without coils. And that two times not to rise: how about barriers here? Whether it is possible to recreate a brain of the person on such elements? Understand are not computing elements and toys, approach for rough demonstration of simple operations.  many times spoke about the adding machine.

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Hello, vdimas, you wrote: V> it is more difficult. Electric field is a statics. Magnetic - dynamics. Also what? V> Effect of a magnetic induction in materials - one of the most difficult for today. V> it is necessary to take not that material, and the coil will attract of nothing.) ) Truly. Or on an attraction it is required to submit huge capacity on the coil. In it and magic - contacts incorporate low power, and transit on them the big capacity can. Similar magic in transistors and lamps. V> or throw-over group in the relay? Or the coil in the relay? Or a material of its core? And, can, a material of a working body of throw-over group? Either a winding material? Or a material ? Or the circuit of fixing of throw-over group in stable conditions? Yes any or or.  wrote criterion - you can collect any computing system from the relay on a breaking and . Well and the power supply, certainly. Generally the question arose that is why. Is in the nature powerful  systems - nervous systems of animals and people. How they arose? Origin of a basic element - neuron is how much difficult? Well also solved that at all computing elements, despite their variety, a certain general principle is tracked. It is difficult to me to describe. That clever barrier thanks to which there is a signal gain. Well and the main thing - signal revolution (as the relay on a breaking or braking communications in neurons). V> , in business of calculations by abstraction top level will be mathematical and any another. Remaining levels depend on implementation particulars,  the same as in programming. You go at once on a false way. S>> the relay on a breaking (or its analog) is a minimum element on which basis it is possible to construct a computer. V> to you already resulted some refuting examples. About what? About that that it is impossible to collect? V> the relay in itself too is not a computing element. The relay on a breaking - is. Turned a signal is already information modification, calculation. Was 1 on an input, became 0 on an output and on the contrary. It is the most simple basic operation to which all are reduced others. If do not trust - give I will draw to you the circuit of any logical element collected on the basis of the relay on a breaking. V> Meanwhile you a certain abstraction layer convenient to you interests. V> I only was already lost,  I will not understand, convenient for what? V> in the beginning it seemed to me that "convenient for understanding", I gave to you where to dig - aside non-linear conversions and the information theory. And it is is specific for binary numeration - towards criteria of the Post. On the contrary! It is not interesting to you. V> so you interests? Me interests as there could be a brain of the person as there could be a neuron on basis . Also solved that there should be a certain general principle which is at all  the elements, capable to form difficult systems (level of nervous system of animals and the person). Already wrote about a clever barrier. S>> and the physical phenomenon which leads to creation of a computing element from not the computing. V> it is a lot of these physical phenomena, already showed to you. It is a lot of them, but they have something the general. Namely a clever barrier as I christened it. Whether it is clear about what barrier speech? And  at me that the clever barrier in different computing elements is formed by the same principles, only different forces (force of the different nature). V> Matter is not in the specific physical phenomena. The calculator carries out information transform, that is energy conversion. To you already showed that these conversions can be the most different - the energy type, somewhere its vector etc. Conversion somewhere will be transformed, it is enough to turn 1-0. And gain. In practice gain, differently difficult systems is important not to construct. S>> so conditionally all things in the world can be divided into computing elements and not computing elements. V> you yet did not show it, and here reverse to you showed repeatedly. To you followed refute at least the arguments given to you. V> However, I do not know as to refute links to operating calculators. For me the computing element is when from it it is possible to create difficult systems, level of our brain. Even if it demands resources big. If its practical applicability is restricted by the adding machine - that it suits only overindulgence. V> for example, 2 centuries ago was inexpedient to build calculators on the relay - they would cost fabulously. Today is inexpedient to build quantum or optical calculators, but years through 50-100 again it will be expedient etc. Well and how you want to catch "principle" if it depends on time, i.e. from a level of development of technologies? Resources are not important in this point in question. S>> reduction of scale of capacities - means constant attenuation of a signal, cannot construct on such elements the arbitrary computing system any more. V> to a smog. A question in expediency. Well as can, if after several hundreds elements the signal fades? If you strengthen - that the amplifier already is a part of computing elements. S>> Now describe what physical phenomena allocate this system with ability to be a computing element? V> any. There is a force of a pressure of water, force of driving of the dampfer, force retaining the dampfer on an axis of a pressure of water. A counter in that that we move the dampfer, say, on a y axis. And the water pressure is directed on a x axis. On that there is a signal gain - orthogonality of controlling force and force of a flow. It also is a major principle. In the same relay. V> replace pressure with pressure in the steam boiler. Replace system from the coil + contact group with the dampfer. Replace wires  and you will receive the full analog of systems on the relay. Here I also tell about it - a certain principle of a clever barrier + possibility to turn a signal (and it as that is connected to a clever barrier) and allow magic image stupid matter to transform in a computing element and from such an element it is possible to collect clever systems. V> easily. V> the First adding machines were under construction on wheels. V> (is more true, on gears, but after all it is a variety such wheels, especially for a reliable linkage, truly?) well already considered. A brain of the person of castors you will not make. Clearly at what level of calculation me interest?

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Hello, , you wrote: S>>>> But of wheels of a computer not to construct.>> the machine ? S>> you did not track a discussion course, already resulted adding machines and similar. It not that. And than the machine  differs from the computer? Except high-speed performance. Did not go into details its devices but as I see the amplifier there is not present. So you will not be dispersed - very much it is possible to unite a limited number of nodes - attenuation. Me elements on which basis it is possible to create computing systems of level of a human brain interest, let it will be and is very expensive. S>> that it was more clear, initially the question arose in a foreshortening of origin of neurons and a brain from not computing matter. Where boundary between conceiving and unthinking organic chemistry? Monocelled seaweed arose as argument? Quite to itself the robot. With "calculator" at molecular level. The edge is obvious - from neural cells it is possible to collect the most complicated neural networks. And normal cells are just closer to the same adding machines and machines  - like and Fedot, yes not that. Difficult computing systems from them not to collect.>> that you generally understand as calculations? Division is calculation or not? The divider is implemented on two resistors. S>> there is no Turing completeness. And what completeness on  can? In the beginning there was a chaos ( the big explosion). But then there were atoms, stars, planets... And we. Evolution a pancake. The matter has property steadily to become complicated. From hydrogen to transuranium elements at level of atoms and from gas fogs to galaxies. There are qualitative passages. From lifeless - live. From not computing pieces of a matter - computing elements. Last it is rather interesting.

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Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> Me elements on which basis it is possible to create computing systems of level of a human brain interest, let it will be and is very expensive. Me fire wood interests, after all on the basis of a steam locomotive it is possible to make the rocket, let and very expensively. Here to you absolutely exact retelling of this topic. Since that fact that in steam locomotives generally coal, to you is 10 times told, but it still does not confuse you.  behind senselessness.

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Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> Hello, , you wrote: S>>>>> But of wheels of a computer not to construct.>>> the machine ? S>>> you did not track a discussion course, already resulted adding machines and similar. It not that.> and than the machine  differs from the computer? Except high-speed performance. S> did not go into details its devices but as I see the amplifier there is not present. So you will not be dispersed - very much it is possible to unite a limited number of nodes - attenuation. S> me elements on which basis it is possible to create computing systems of level of a human brain interest, let it will be and is very expensive. S>>> that it was more clear, initially the question arose in a foreshortening of origin of neurons and a brain from not computing matter.> where boundary between conceiving and unthinking organic chemistry? Monocelled seaweed arose as argument? Quite to itself the robot. With "calculator" at molecular level. S> the Edge is obvious - from neural cells it is possible to collect the most complicated neural networks. And normal cells are just closer to the same adding machines and machines  - like and Fedot, yes not that. Difficult computing systems from them not to collect. Listen, and how from normal processors super ' collect? Like to fade all should...

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Hello, , you wrote: S>> did not go into details its devices but as I see the amplifier there is not present. S>> So you will not be dispersed - very much it is possible to unite a limited number of nodes - attenuation. At presence  an energy source (the steam engine) kol-in sites it is restricted kol-vom coal and fire wood. We consider two gear wheels. At one 100 fingers, at another 10. It means that on high-speed performance we receive acceleration in 10 times. On high-speed performance in 10 times, but on force we receive to a procorf in 10 times. In practice pours out in that that gear wheels simply do not withstand such force, after several nodes. Crumble. Well and a velocity of light - restriction. So a unique output - the amplifier. Without the amplifier at computing element level - in any way.

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Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S>> the Edge is obvious - from neural cells it is possible to collect the most complicated neural networks. And normal cells are just closer to the same adding machines and machines  - like and Fedot, yes not that. Difficult computing systems from them not to collect. S> listen, and how from normal processors super ' collect? Like to fade all should... You did not track a discussion course. The relay, transistors and radio tubes provide gain of a signal and it allows to collect from them systems of the arbitrary complexity. From gears so it does not turn out. Similar you at all did not understand what question is considered.

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Hello, , you wrote: S>> On high-speed performance in 10 times, but on force it is received to a procorf in 10 times. To rotate a gear of the big force it is not necessary. A friction there the small. A huge friction. Try 100 . Gears to connect in one system without gain. Even 10 thousand pieces do not connect. S>> in practice pours out in that that gear wheels simply do not withstand such force, after several nodes. You saw hours? How many there gears? By the way, microscopic. 15 pieces? Well , 50 pieces in the advanced models. S>> Crumble. Well and a velocity of light - restriction. A velocity of light  and for transistors. But only in transistors there is no magnification of force at the expense of reduction of speed. S>> so a unique output - the amplifier. Without the amplifier at computing element level - in any way. Take a cuckoo clock. They are very simply arranged. They have an exterior energy source - the weight. They have a pendulum." The amplifier "in your terminology it actually the modulator (in terms of signals). Because energy of a pendulum has not enough for a ghost of all gears in driving. But even in the Middle Ages it there was not a problem. And here when you speak about  is already the amplifier. This is quite a different matter. You know as to strengthen a signal from a gear?> let's consider system from elements at which the input signal (which switch an element) is equal to an output signal (which switches other element). In the presence of an energy source this condition is easily fulfilled. Truly, only what principle and what physical  needs for support of such system?

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Hello, , you wrote: S>> the Huge friction. Why the huge? How many gears it is possible to connect with each other in practice? Well 10 million can connect? Hardly. And after all it is necessary hundred billions for brain modeling. S>> try 100 . Gears to connect in one system without gain. Even 10 thousand pieces do not connect. Why without gain? Signal modulation (in your terminology "gain") becomes gears elementarily (at the expense of an energy source). How many it is necessary for energy it is other question. But after all and lamp computers  so consumed in due time. If with gain - that I do not argue, we receive a high-grade computing element. You does not confuse that  there is a high frequency and LF? And at some instant there were microwave ovens transistors. Analogy to hydraulics more than pertinent. Time of switching of electronic key  not the infinite. It so. But one business when each element imports a constant time delay, absolutely another if speed of operation proportionally decreases for compensating of force of a friction. S>> you know as to strengthen a signal from a gear? I already cited as an example a pendulum. Not a pendulum and, probably, a gruzik/spring + a ratchet wheel + an anchor. The ratchet wheel allows to strengthen a signal, but only in one direction. And there there is no switching possibility. Hardly probably to use for creation of computing systems.

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V>> Reliability and energy consumption. S> that is  a delay thrust in the power supply - already the computing element and on the basis of such elements can be made the computer? It is reliable and consumes energy. S> you a little bit think that write. At least a little bit. We take 3 identical  delays. We stick in the socket one, we measure a current. We stick three parallely - we measure a current which will be in 3 times of more current through one delay. That-yes, we just produced operation of multiplication to three! Here only to patent does not quit. All is invented for a long time for us. But  a cool roller on  for education  - the subject is quite suitable.

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Hello, ononim, you wrote: O> we Take 3 identical  delays. We stick in the socket one, we measure a current. We stick three parallely - we measure a current which will be in 3 times of more current through one delay. That-yes, we just produced operation of multiplication to three! Here only to patent does not quit. All is invented for a long time for us. But  a cool roller on  for education  - the subject is quite suitable. And why on  delays it is impossible to collect the trigger or even an element "NOT"? What property of the given computing element does not allow to make it? Whether understand, speech about those elements from which it is possible to collect computing systems of the arbitrary complexity. Yes, you can tell that the shit is a computing element as while you only postponed it is that temperature 36.6, and after time it  and its temperature changes, on the basis of function of change of temperature on time it is possible to fulfill certain calculations. But the shit - it also is a shit. From it the computer not to collect.

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O>> we Take 3 identical  delays. We stick in the socket one, we measure a current. We stick three parallely - we measure a current which will be in 3 times of more current through one delay. That-yes, we just produced operation of multiplication to three! Here only to patent does not quit. All is invented for a long time for us. But  a cool roller on  for education  - the subject is quite suitable. S> and why on  delays it is impossible to collect the trigger or even an element "NOT"? What property of the given computing element does not allow to make it? The trigger is means, instead of the purpose. The purpose -  information,  delays too can do it, but not the best choice for this purpose. As well as suddenly - to be an element NOT, but not alone, and together with other explorer, with high temperature coefficient of resistance. Whether S> understand, speech about those elements from which it is possible to collect computing systems of the arbitrary complexity. S> Yes, you can tell that the shit is a computing element as while you only postponed it is that temperature 36.6, and after time it  and its temperature changes, on the basis of function of change of temperature on time it is possible to fulfill certain calculations. S> but a shit - it also is a shit. From it the computer not to collect. Read . Without it to philosophize at you it turns out badly. The link is above given.

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S>> What there should be a valve device that it was controlled by water and thus did not add a time delay (it is selected in the text), S> Switching elements without time delays do not exist.> Hydraulic computers quite to themselves worked as Vash K.O. S several decades ago. And pneumatic till now work. Who very much would like can collect to itself. Here spare parts.

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Hello, ononim, you wrote: O> the Trigger is means, instead of the purpose. The purpose -  information,  delays too can do it, but not the best choice for this purpose. No,  are used, for example, for counter creation. Without it in any way clock periods cannot consider. I to you already told - on a delay you cannot collect the high-grade computer. And matter is not in volume that it is simple . O> As well as suddenly - to be an element NOT, but not alone, and together with other explorer, with high temperature coefficient of resistance. And why cannot in itself, without an additional element? Means there are certain properties at the material object which allocate with its ability to be a high-grade computing element? S>> but a shit - it also is a shit. From it the computer not to collect. O> read . Without it to philosophize at you it turns out badly. The link is above given. You try to give the reference, and I ask you to think a little bit the head.

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Hello, ononim, you wrote: O> And pneumatic till now work. Who very much would like can collect to itself. Here spare parts. And what there inside, you know? What physical phenomenon allows a body to be a high-grade computing element? Why from one bodies it is possible to collect the calculator for all logical operations and from other bodies is not present?

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S> Hello, ononim, you wrote: O>> the Trigger is means, instead of the purpose. The purpose -  information,  delays too can do it, but not the best choice for this purpose. S> is not present,  are used, for example, for counter creation. Without it in any way clock periods cannot consider. S> I to you already told - on a delay you cannot collect the high-grade computer. And matter is not in volume that it is simple . And let's be defined about full value. The counter is too in most cases means, instead of the purpose. A convenient element for calculator implementation on the discrete element basis but without which it is possible to manage for analog _. The Computer (than by the way in a literal translation is computer) is on determination the machine which is able to calculate. Calculations is not husky in , and /// in the elementary case. On delays, the law of the Ohm and the ampermeter in the scale graduated in real numbers it is all becomes easily and easy. On gears - too becomes. On a pneumatics-gidrvalike - too becomes, links are given in other messages. O>> read . Without it to philosophize at you it turns out badly. The link is above given. S> you try to give the reference, and I ask you to think a little bit the head. And from outside looks so you simply , and without possessing sufficient knowledge. Your subconsciousness considers that the computer is something, capable to send husky in . Your consciousness in turn does not possess sufficiently understanding as it is all works, as a result tries to finish a missing pattern of the world, operating with metaphysical concepts. With obvious consequences. S> means there are certain properties at the material object which allocate with its ability to be a high-grade computing element? Now about husky in  as which your subconsciousness also considers as the high-grade computer, but owing to a lack  you cannot it . Verbalization looks so - whether it is possible from sticks and other similar elements to implement a background Nejmanovsky architecture. In the theory it is possible. Analytical machine Bebbidzha is called. It is a lot of versions, and the most general-purpose (that for which the first programmer wrote the first program), claiming to be Nejmanovsky, as far as I know, - anybody in practice did not do. But not because it is impossible, that is why that technologies did not allow and there was no so to say a commodity market. And when there were technologies and the markets, there were possibilities to implement too most on more effective basis. O>> as well as suddenly - to be an element NOT, but not alone, and together with other explorer, with high temperature coefficient of resistance. S> and why cannot in itself, without an additional element? And why a finger it is impossible to pierce a steel sheet in the thickness of 1 mm? And all the same it can is possible?

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Whether signal gain in  is necessary for system of arbitrary high complexity? It is necessary certainly. Whether it is necessary that actually the calculator was that amplifier? No. Therefore basic property of a computing element gain is not. Signal amplifiers - as the system part - is. And the most ancient example - nervous system. Appendixes of neurons - , are supplied by amplifiers (repeaters) of a signal. Therefore they can be any necessary length. In itself neurons as those amplifiers are not. They only adders-integrators-wtfery. (In, WTF - the basic logical action necessary for  of the computer to the reasonable machine!)

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O>> And pneumatic till now work. Who very much would like can collect to itself. Here spare parts. S> and what there inside, you know? Oh these , they kill this civilization the feebleness pragmatically to operate with basic things. Even  not in a state: http://www.tstu.ru/book/elib/pdf/2001/mordasov.pdf http://sibspz.ru/images/downloads/ruk_ep.pdf http://books.ifmo.ru/file/pdf/1037.pdf Though it is not assured that you read it. The limit of the modern intellectual youth is article on . S> What physical phenomenon allows a body to be a high-grade computing element? Basic laws of mechanics and thermodynamics. S> why from one bodies it is possible to collect the calculator for all logical operations and from other bodies is not present? Having the melting furnace and a hank of an adhesive tape the calculator it is possible to make of any bodies.

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S>> Here to you without coils. And that two times not to rise: how about barriers here? Whether S> it is possible to recreate a brain of the person on such elements? To begin with it would be necessary to recreate it on an electronic computer. Well also it is necessary not to forget that neurons in a brain of 100 billion That is, for scale realization - almost in 15 times more than people on the earth. S> understand are not computing elements and toys, approach for rough demonstration of simple operations. And now it is necessary to think a little of that why such abstractions as "theory" and "practice" have been invented. And to be defined about what actually a topic. Whether about that it is possible to create a device, capable to put husky in  on the basis of certain technology having unlimited resources or having resources in the form of mankind, or having resources in the form of the state / the transnational company. Answers it is strongly separated. It also is a difference between the theory and practice.

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S>>>>> But of wheels of a computer not to construct.>>>> the machine ? S>>> you did not track a discussion course, already resulted adding machines and similar. It not that.> and than the machine  differs from the computer? Except high-speed performance. S> did not go into details its devices but as I see the amplifier there is not present. So you will not be dispersed - very much it is possible to unite a limited number of nodes - attenuation. Why you so are assured that in it the amplifier is not present? The amplifier is the device, capable to produce the high-energy answer on  perturbation. As in a topic is  the mechanical amplifier are the fire-arms which in reply to feeble mechanical effort to a cock put much bigger effort to a subject to which the bullet gets. S> there are qualitative passages. From lifeless - live. From not computing pieces of a matter - computing elements. These qualitative passages - at you in a head. In a reality they are not present. I do not argue with that what even being in a head, they fine simplify understanding, allowing to lay down in this head  an exact picture of world around. But it is not necessary to consider that that that at you in a head - defines mechanics of the world. Or anyway it is absolutely separate subject

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Be at you in a head though however  the systematized fundamental knowledge, instead of imaginations you would see that at certain abstraction layer circuitry organic laws - laws of the Ohm and Kirhgofa easily and easy lay down on hydrodynamics. Pressure is a potential. The difference of pressure in two places is a potential difference. Speed of a current of a liquid/gas is a current strength. Resistance - is obvious. Electrical  - for gas it is a banal tank, certain capacity, and for a liquid - it is necessary to stir up it in a tank with  the piston. Inductance - it is simple the long tube. Diodes become easily and easy dampfers. The full analog of the field transistor:. It for accuracy, analog FET with always zero gate threshold (would be more exact to tell MOSFET, but it is details). And so in real does not happen, that Vgs (thrh) =0, it always floats also float limits are specified in . If to the piston to put  which would support it in the slightly opened state without a difference of pressure is would be depletion mode FET. If  it on a default closed is there would be a device more approximate to real enhanced mode FET. Well and absolutely for definiteness - to P-channel FET if to consider that more the high pressure is higher potential. Continuing analogies - in digit appreciate FET with the abrupt characteristic that at minimum change of pressure of pressure a lock-source - change of resistance of the channel was maximum. That is, that the transistor whenever possible opened as soon as the lock-source passes Vgs threshold. In the pneumotransistor such it would be possible to reach the extension of a tube across a picture plane. And one more latent analogy to the transistor. At  there is a characteristic - Qg - a charge (in Coulombs) which it is required to transfer to a lock that  opened (on the certain stipulated value of resistance of the channel). Generally this charge try to reduce, because in a high-frequency mode of switching-on/deenergizing, characteristic for the modern devices, this charge is the key reason of losses of energy, on transistor switching. In case of our pnevmo/hydro-transistor - analog of this value - volume of air/water which is required to extort from  capacities that the transistor opened. Perfect operation thus will be proportional to the area of the piston of a lock (on which including "speed" of discovery depends) to multiply for the length on which it opens to multiply by a difference of pressure, that is, as a matter of fact - from this volume of water increased by a difference of pressure. - energy for discovery is equal in the electrical transistor Qg*Vgs. And still amusing likeness - the more abrupt characteristic Rds/Vgs want to receive from the electrical transistor, the  it turns out Qg. Further business is entered by any artful technologies and marketing words of type HEXFET and .. . But the fact remains, as in our case the more widely we will do a lock, the there will be its area more - that  the volume should be transferred for control. Infinitely thin to make its this hydrolock it is impossible - after all it should not break from a difference of pressures. . Again the analogy - at  is limiting pressure a sink-source above which it dies. And again - the more this pressure, the generally - is more Qg. Moreover if to look at the chart of allocation of charges in  it to a pain reminds my picture in . Here it is necessary to note that pressure in itself without speed of water stream does not make any operation, in the same way as does not make operation an electricity in the socket while in it will not include that , through what goes also a current. And thus  the device is the amplifier, that is he allows making small operation (a difference of pressure a lock-source to multiply by the piston-shutter area to multiply by length of its course) to control water streams which will make much bigger operation. Simply you in a head have basic knowledge from school course of physics, and there is an intuitively-household concept that if press - means make operation. It - is incorrect. It - simply specificity  physiology that muscles guzzle energy even at the immovability. Evolution went such way because in most cases for a survival it is required fast responses, and cases when it is necessary to put long constant efforts in wild life are rare. But if they were frequent - evolution quite could work out the mechanism  muscles in certain position, for example by controlled swerving of space structures of molecules of fibers in muscles. Then short-term effort it would be possible to stop up the easel with a hand, and then to idle, without applying any forces. More precisely, without making any operation, and applying only force for what not cells had not to burn . But, unfortunately or to happiness, evolution does not generate unnecessary mechanisms. But it not an occasion to think that time to the mechanism should be pressed, it means thus makes mechanical operation. Operation it *. A zero way - zero operation. Is certainly and fundamental distinctions between a pneumatics and electrodynamics. For example absence of electromagnetic interaction. As a result it is impossible as in a case with an electricity to make small inductance, winding a tube/wire on substance with high magnetic transmittivity or to make high capacity allocating electrodes near to substance with high dielectric transmittivity. Well and in turn the equation of Bernulli is difficult outright  on  from electrodynamics. Plus we add the mechanical effects connected to inertia (actually high own inductance of such "circuits") - and we understand that this technology is extremely inconvenient in comparison with an electricity. But basically all it it is quite enough to make logic. And if so happens that the mankind would not guess electricity existence as the nobility, pneumomicrochips probably would learn to do, and the notebook accumulator would be charged by the bicycle pump.  there would work thoughts, but on the micromosaic screen it would be quite possible to play the Sapper or the Civilization. Mobile here would not be. It is not known about an electricity - means it is not known about electromagnetic waves. However, could organize communication in far ultrasound that would lead to mass extinction not cockroaches, and bats. Well and with other house living creatures there would be problems. About the marvelous world .

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Hello, ononim, you wrote: O> And to be defined about what actually the topic. Whether about that it is possible to create a device, capable to put husky in  on the basis of certain technology having unlimited resources or having resources in the form of mankind, or having resources in the form of the state / the transnational company. Answers it is strongly separated. It also is a difference between the theory and practice. The HARDWARE was asked by rather reasonable question: What minimum property the material body that it was possible to name it a computing element should possess and to form of it computing systems? Also postulates that signal gain is necessary. It seems to me rather doubtful, but convincingly to refute it did not turn out yet.

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O>> And to be defined about what actually the topic. Whether about that it is possible to create a device, capable to put husky in  on the basis of certain technology having unlimited resources or having resources in the form of mankind, or having resources in the form of the state / the transnational company. Answers it is strongly separated. It also is a difference between the theory and practice. S> the HARDWARE was asked by rather reasonable question: S> S> What minimum property the material body that it was possible to name it a computing element should possess and to form of it computing systems? S> also postulates that signal gain is necessary. It seems to me rather doubtful, but convincingly to refute it did not turn out yet. We can look at it from the point of view of thermodynamics. Roughly speaking, the computing system should provide reduction of the entropy in the course of the operation. The amplifier is as a matter of fact the entropy pump which extorts entropy from the system which part is, transferring it in the power supply (thus the general entropy , so with thermodynamics all ). So I not against postulation of necessity of gain of signals in the computing system. I against postulation that a computing element in itself am the amplifier. Though,  expressing, it looking how to consider that such an element, and that such system. Here the neuron together with  is one computing element? Or nevertheless neuron - in itself, and , with intakes of Ranve who compensate fading of nervous pulse on a section  - still pair . Elements? Well and still I against that that the amplifier am always an electrical device. Though it looking how deeply to dig. All mechanical interactions everyone there of a friction - as a matter of fact display of electrostatic forces at intermolecular level. Here the question  truly would be desirable to select abstraction layer from that. And with it at the problem HARDWARE since he on the one hand asks about potential possibility on the other hand speaks about a shit, and these are different abstraction layers.

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Re: Basic property of a computing element at matter level

Hello, ononim, you wrote: S>> also postulates that signal gain is necessary. It seems to me rather doubtful, but convincingly to refute it did not turn out yet. O> we can look at it from the point of view of thermodynamics. Roughly speaking, the computing system should provide reduction of the entropy in the course of the operation. The amplifier is as a matter of fact the entropy pump which extorts entropy from the system which part is, transferring it in the power supply (thus the general entropy , so with thermodynamics all ). A question aside - why  should provide reduction of the entropy? Because in process . There is an entropy magnification? Therefore  it is necessary to supervise it somehow. I am right? O> so I not against postulation of necessity of gain of signals in the computing system. I against postulation that a computing element in itself am the amplifier. Though,  expressing, it looking how to consider that such an element, and that such system. Here the neuron together with  is one computing element? Or nevertheless neuron - in itself, and , with intakes of Ranve who compensate fading of nervous pulse on a section  - still pair . Elements? O> well and still I against that that the amplifier is always an electrical device. Though it looking how deeply to dig. All mechanical interactions everyone there of a friction - as a matter of fact display of electrostatic forces at intermolecular level. Here the question  truly would be desirable to select abstraction layer from that. And with it at the problem HARDWARE since he on the one hand asks about potential possibility on the other hand speaks about a shit, and these are different abstraction layers. The abstraction layer assumes abstraction . Effects on which it is constructed . Above already considered that . El should possess non-linear f conversions of a signal. There will be this gain or attenuation - a question another (the nature . Effects in the given specific case).