Hello, vdimas, you wrote: V> it is more difficult. Electric field is a statics. Magnetic - dynamics. Also what? V> Effect of a magnetic induction in materials - one of the most difficult for today. V> it is necessary to take not that material, and the coil will attract of nothing.) ) Truly. Or on an attraction it is required to submit huge capacity on the coil. In it and magic - contacts incorporate low power, and transit on them the big capacity can. Similar magic in transistors and lamps. V> or throw-over group in the relay? Or the coil in the relay? Or a material of its core? And, can, a material of a working body of throw-over group? Either a winding material? Or a material ? Or the circuit of fixing of throw-over group in stable conditions? Yes any or or. wrote criterion - you can collect any computing system from the relay on a breaking and . Well and the power supply, certainly. Generally the question arose that is why. Is in the nature powerful systems - nervous systems of animals and people. How they arose? Origin of a basic element - neuron is how much difficult? Well also solved that at all computing elements, despite their variety, a certain general principle is tracked. It is difficult to me to describe. That clever barrier thanks to which there is a signal gain. Well and the main thing - signal revolution (as the relay on a breaking or braking communications in neurons). V> , in business of calculations by abstraction top level will be mathematical and any another. Remaining levels depend on implementation particulars, the same as in programming. You go at once on a false way. S>> the relay on a breaking (or its analog) is a minimum element on which basis it is possible to construct a computer. V> to you already resulted some refuting examples. About what? About that that it is impossible to collect? V> the relay in itself too is not a computing element. The relay on a breaking - is. Turned a signal is already information modification, calculation. Was 1 on an input, became 0 on an output and on the contrary. It is the most simple basic operation to which all are reduced others. If do not trust - give I will draw to you the circuit of any logical element collected on the basis of the relay on a breaking. V> Meanwhile you a certain abstraction layer convenient to you interests. V> I only was already lost, I will not understand, convenient for what? V> in the beginning it seemed to me that "convenient for understanding", I gave to you where to dig - aside non-linear conversions and the information theory. And it is is specific for binary numeration - towards criteria of the Post. On the contrary! It is not interesting to you. V> so you interests? Me interests as there could be a brain of the person as there could be a neuron on basis . Also solved that there should be a certain general principle which is at all the elements, capable to form difficult systems (level of nervous system of animals and the person). Already wrote about a clever barrier. S>> and the physical phenomenon which leads to creation of a computing element from not the computing. V> it is a lot of these physical phenomena, already showed to you. It is a lot of them, but they have something the general. Namely a clever barrier as I christened it. Whether it is clear about what barrier speech? And at me that the clever barrier in different computing elements is formed by the same principles, only different forces (force of the different nature). V> Matter is not in the specific physical phenomena. The calculator carries out information transform, that is energy conversion. To you already showed that these conversions can be the most different - the energy type, somewhere its vector etc. Conversion somewhere will be transformed, it is enough to turn 1-0. And gain. In practice gain, differently difficult systems is important not to construct. S>> so conditionally all things in the world can be divided into computing elements and not computing elements. V> you yet did not show it, and here reverse to you showed repeatedly. To you followed refute at least the arguments given to you. V> However, I do not know as to refute links to operating calculators. For me the computing element is when from it it is possible to create difficult systems, level of our brain. Even if it demands resources big. If its practical applicability is restricted by the adding machine - that it suits only overindulgence. V> for example, 2 centuries ago was inexpedient to build calculators on the relay - they would cost fabulously. Today is inexpedient to build quantum or optical calculators, but years through 50-100 again it will be expedient etc. Well and how you want to catch "principle" if it depends on time, i.e. from a level of development of technologies? Resources are not important in this point in question. S>> reduction of scale of capacities - means constant attenuation of a signal, cannot construct on such elements the arbitrary computing system any more. V> to a smog. A question in expediency. Well as can, if after several hundreds elements the signal fades? If you strengthen - that the amplifier already is a part of computing elements. S>> Now describe what physical phenomena allocate this system with ability to be a computing element? V> any. There is a force of a pressure of water, force of driving of the dampfer, force retaining the dampfer on an axis of a pressure of water. A counter in that that we move the dampfer, say, on a y axis. And the water pressure is directed on a x axis. On that there is a signal gain - orthogonality of controlling force and force of a flow. It also is a major principle. In the same relay. V> replace pressure with pressure in the steam boiler. Replace system from the coil + contact group with the dampfer. Replace wires and you will receive the full analog of systems on the relay. Here I also tell about it - a certain principle of a clever barrier + possibility to turn a signal (and it as that is connected to a clever barrier) and allow magic image stupid matter to transform in a computing element and from such an element it is possible to collect clever systems. V> easily. V> the First adding machines were under construction on wheels. V> (is more true, on gears, but after all it is a variety such wheels, especially for a reliable linkage, truly?) well already considered. A brain of the person of castors you will not make. Clearly at what level of calculation me interest?