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Topic: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Children, do not consider for , the classical problem "the boss simply recently was formed read a new word in Tyrnetah and now all of us amicably run it to put into practice". A word it Azure. Itself  I already ignore for a long time as soon as for the first time about it read, but now it was necessary to be taken once again with a heap of reviews and even specific lessons that only confirms my primary judgement: Azure is a WALL from newly made API, dividing old technologies from old programmers. Certainly, in a wall there are holes (function API) through which for  it is possible to look for a wall. Well, it is all the known fact - if earlier  sold a product and the client disappeared, now through a cloud to milk the client it is possible infinitely. What to me till now it is not clear? Perhaps, most a little: I quite admit that missed any  a detail and my vision of clouds too . A question: WHAT is is specific to me can to give a cloud besides the fact that I had before? All of you know a stack of old technologies: the server-iron, the AXIS, virtual machines, loading managers, clusters, a DBMS, a Web server, Windows-service (yes-yes, the most normal of type Windows Time and using  TCP), Web-service (SOAP), can even Protocol Buffers, C#, WPF, the list all is obvious, all of us with it worked. And here now, even at all evidence of a milking role of clouds, clients look at new gate and desperately try to open them. I as the engineer understand that this new  a bog and time expenditure. Your judgements?

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Kolesiki, you wrote: K> your judgements? From good - "rubber" resources. That is, at arrival of crowd of people, the server rise and will be launched for handling of all crowd, then reversely shrivel, without consuming money. From bad - when I worked with Azure, at it was at once three web muzzles - old, new both supernew. And a horse-radish you will find that that is necessary.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Kolesiki, you wrote: K> That is not clear till now to me? Perhaps, most a little: I quite admit that missed any  a detail and my vision of clouds too . A question: WHAT is is specific to me can to give a cloud besides the fact that I had before? K> your judgements? : the New silver bullet - DevOps. Change of a development cycle and  applications. You can let out updates on 10 times a day and they within seconds become accessible to all customers. The client does not need the iron for setting of a software and staff for its administration. There is no support of a zoo of old versions.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Kolesiki, you wrote: K> That is not clear till now to me? Perhaps, most a little: I quite admit that missed any  a detail and my vision of clouds too . A question: WHAT is is specific to me can to give a cloud besides the fact that I had before? , a cloud are resources on demand. I.e., the server or a resource what was necessary - tore it for minutes (and often adjusted in some more minutes or hours). It is not necessary -  and in  added or deleted, that it was not hindered. All remaining - about speed, cheapness and other is   to which it is not necessary to pay special attention. It, just, differently happens.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

From good - "rubber" resources. That is, at arrival of crowd of people, the server rise and will be launched for handling of all crowd, then reversely shrivel, without consuming money. Only  it is necessary most to support architecturally and if a monolith that any  and does not smell. Rubber it would be possible to name them, if all is transparent at code level, for example: long* array = new long [give me 100 terrabyte of storage];//and one hundred processors for parallel handling of this array

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, turbocode, you wrote:> From good - "rubber" resources. That is, at arrival of crowd of people, the server rise and will be launched for handling of all crowd, then reversely shrivel, without consuming money. T> only  it is necessary most to support architecturally and if a monolith that any  and does not smell. T> rubber it would be possible to name them, if all is transparent at code level, for example: T> T> long* array = new long [give me 100 terrabyte of storage];//and one hundred processors for parallel handling of this array T> For this purpose 20 years already as exist everyone there MPI, and all the same nobody gives one hundred processors to you. That is, happen like the machine to 128 kernels, but it something rare.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

For this purpose 20 years already as exist everyone there MPI, and all the same nobody gives one hundred processors to you. That is, happen like the machine to 128 kernels, but it something rare. In it and a problem that it physically one machine with 128 kernels, instead of a cloud of ten physical machines in the total which is given by 128 kernels but which can be produced to the user as one machine at operating system level.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Glory, you wrote: From good - "rubber" resources. That is, at arrival of crowd of people, the server rise Well not, in it it is not especially trusted. As correctly noted,  it is necessary most to support (MS for the sake of you a SQL-CLUSTER will not mold!), plus for certain for "rise" it is necessary to buy the separate plan where to you guarantee . "reserve". Iron - it of 100 % remains old, anybody did not do a cloud of space technologies. Simply judging by the interface, from  hid generally all and now you at all do not know, where and as your system - whether bare iron, VM works, docker or generally on one IIS  websites - here that frightens me. Earlier you could do an accurate store on reliability, and the store depended on the task - where narrowly, there and is expanded. As it can be made in clouds - no concept I have (for example, to request 1 the RAM or to organize DB sharding).

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, v6, you wrote: v6> Tezisno: the New silver bullet - DevOps. You can let out updates on 10 times a day Heh... So after all to splash releases it is possible and without clouds! Moreover - this acceleration if the essence of product development did not exchange whence undertakes? As before, it is the squirrel in a wheel "---- to a stage <<and so descends - it is possible in release>>". v6> the Client does not need the iron for setting of a software and staff for its administration. From what? A cloud - only a new title "the server where I launched service". If to alter all under a web muzzle - then yes, but it hardly concerns to . v6> There is no support of a zoo of old versions. Alas, there is also any methodology it does not change, "a zoo - it in a program essence". Even the new web muzzle does not eradicate the fact that there are old versions of files and they too need to be able to be opened.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Kolesiki, you wrote: K> your judgements? The most important thing () that it gives - encourages to write applications which are easily horizontally scaled. It from the point of view of programmers. From the point of view of clients the option "a cluster on demand" was added, that is it is such farm, which itself rasshirjaetsja/is narrowed depending on loading. Thus it is possible to pile up still Azure Services on a normal server and to twist all in-house. That is the cloud is only a special type of a normal hosting, is simple unlike "a classical" hosting, the cloud can be recustomized therein and transparently for the application. And on cloud money are fastened no more, than a hosting. Actually, the question "a hosting vs a cloud" more often from the practical point of view is reduced to "the client cannot use application at certain loading, but expenditures " vs "the client can always use application, but expenditures can float".

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Kolesiki, you wrote: K> Well not, in it it is not especially trusted. As correctly noted,  it is necessary most to support Rezinovost it is supported at architecture level. If the system is constructed on stateless-services it is easily scaled. From Azure it is required to add/delete only  in a cluster. However, here it Azure automatically to do like is not able yet. Plus, Azure gives a heap of services "from a box" - there and load balancer is, and failover-switching at falling  on ASF a cluster both service locator and ServiceBus for a message exchange. There long  with the list of services. If the architecture is not ground under scalability Azure appears only in the form of a normal hosting. Well with some possibility of manual scaling through switching between variants of accessible capacities. K> it is simple judging by the interface, from  hid generally all and now you at all do not know, where and as your system - whether bare iron, VM works, docker or generally on one IIS  websites - here that frightens me. It is possible to lift there VM and to have the full access, practically to "bare" iron. The interface - yes, it is made, probably, experts in marketing. A heap , and some necessary things physically are not accessible through the web interface. K> earlier you could do an accurate store on reliability, and the store depended on the task - where narrowly, there and is expanded. As it can be made in clouds - no concept I have (for example, to request 1 the RAM or to organize DB sharding). And how to make 1  the RAM by the physical machine? Already there is such iron? Security margins there quite adjusted. All depends on the budget.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Kolesiki, you wrote: K> Azure is a WALL from newly made API, dividing old technologies from old programmers. Certainly, in a wall there are holes (function API) through which for  it is possible to look for a wall. Well, it is all the known fact - if earlier  sold a product and the client disappeared, now through a cloud to milk the client it is possible infinitely. K> that is not clear till now to me? Perhaps, most a little: I quite admit that missed any  a detail and my vision of clouds too . A question: WHAT is is specific to me can to give a cloud besides the fact that I had before? The answer idle time, but is not pleasant to you. Azure it not about technologies, Azure it about business. And technologies - a consequence.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Kolesiki, you wrote: v6>> Tezisno: the New silver bullet - DevOps. You can let out updates on 10 times a day K> Heh... So after all to splash releases it is possible and without clouds! Moreover - this acceleration if the essence of product development did not exchange whence undertakes? As before, it is the squirrel in a wheel "---- to a stage <<and so descends - it is possible in release>>". And with what speed it is possible "to splash releases" and how quickly they get to the customer and how quickly appears  from them? In the traditional scenario of a phase of this process are expanded for months, in case of a cloud it there are hours and minutes. From iterations "development-testing-fidbek" for a long time already leave. v6>> the client does not need the iron for setting of a software and staff for its administration. K> from what? A cloud - only a new title "the server where I launched service". If to alter all under a web muzzle - then yes, but it hardly concerns to . No. Here earlier your product demanded the sql-server. And the client had to buy iron and licenses, to find staff which has appropriate qualification for administration. What then to do with this good if your product is not so necessary - too a question. And now you simply client  simply uses cloudy storage and the client pays only that really used also nothing administers. v6>> there is no support of a zoo of old versions. K> alas, there is also any methodology it does not change, "a zoo - it in a program essence". Even the new web muzzle does not eradicate the fact that there are old versions of files and they too need to be able to be opened. Support of old versions of files is a small part from loading (and it is fulfilled single-valuedly) with support of old versions and the obligation to import new features in 2-3 last releases parallely.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, v6, you wrote: v6> And with what speed it is possible "to splash releases" and how quickly they get to the customer and how quickly appears  from them? In the traditional scenario of a phase of this process are expanded for months, in case of a cloud it there are hours and minutes. v6> from iterations "development-testing-fidbek" for a long time already leave. Looks as that in a pattern ". A yak, . A yak and in " reduced a phase "in " and  ". A yak" for money of the client. Not, for business it probably and really is profitable...

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Michael7, you wrote: v6>> And with what speed it is possible "to splash releases" and how quickly they get to the customer and how quickly appears  from them? In the traditional scenario of a phase of this process are expanded for months, in case of a cloud it there are hours and minutes. v6>> from iterations "development-testing-fidbek" for a long time already leave. M> looks as that in a pattern ". A yak, . A yak and in " reduced a phase "in " and  ". A yak" for money of the client. Not, for business it probably and really is profitable... Autotests. Including exotic enough and intellectual type Netflix Chaos Monkey

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, turbocode, you wrote: T> In it and a problem that it physically one machine with 128 kernels, instead of a cloud of ten physical machines in the total which is given by 128 kernels but which can be produced to the user as one machine at operating system level. orleans (for an independent hosting) and azure service fabric - it. And  there is also an adjustment through API directly from triggered service.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

T>> In it and a problem that it physically one machine with 128 kernels, instead of a cloud of ten physical machines in the total which is given by 128 kernels but which can be produced to the user as one machine at operating system level. S> orleans (for an independent hosting) and azure service fabric - it. And  there is also an adjustment through API directly from triggered service. What it? There microservices everywhere are required, and I want that the monolith saw that it on hand has 1280 kernels and 100 terabyte of storage as well as TaskManager at operating system level - and whether there will be these kernels physically by one machine or on one hundred separate in one network it is not important.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, turbocode, you wrote: T> That it? There microservices everywhere are required, and I want that the monolith saw that it on hand has 1280 kernels and 100 terabyte of storage as well as TaskManager at operating system level - and whether there will be these kernels physically by one machine or on one hundred separate in one network it is not important. Yes  as though, truth on a utility a sentence from a series "at apartment purchase - a cap in a gift". Or you want a farm with the same total productivity, with the same time delays and that also it is free? If it is serious - direct hands manage much more cheaply. Example StackOverflow or Age of Ascent as though hints.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

S> Yes  as though, truth on a utility a sentence from a series "at apartment purchase - a cap in a gift". S> Or you want a farm with the same total productivity, with the same time delays and that also it is free? I want that clouds were the presents, instead of  as now.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, Artem Korneev, you wrote: AK> And how to make 1  the RAM by the physical machine? Already there is such iron? Is. Cheaply, only $10 at an o'clock at Amazona. In  x1.32xlarge costs 2 to storage and 128CPU. On their spots it is possible to buy more cheaply sometimes.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

Hello, turbocode, you wrote: S>> orleans (for an independent hosting) and azure service fabric - it. And  there is also an adjustment through API directly from triggered service. T> that it? There microservices everywhere are required, and I want that the monolith saw that it on hand has 1280 kernels and 100 terabyte of storage as well as TaskManager at operating system level That means "TaskManager at operating system level"? In Amazon' the buyer receives complete control over OS, now there even   is twisted on separate iron. For small  it is possible to guarantee that  it will be used exclusively generally for avoidance of problems with ghost effects of other tenants or because of law requirements. T> - and whether there will be these kernels physically by one machine or on one hundred separate in one network it is not important. And it is already physically unreal. Nobody cancelled a velocity of light -  between different machines always will be more slowly, than local access.

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Re: Azure - how to avoid a bog?

T>> - and whether there will be these kernels physically by one machine or on one hundred separate in one network it is not important. A C> And it is already physically unreal. Nobody cancelled a velocity of light -  between different machines always will be more slowly, than local access. All that I wanted it GRID at operating system level that it was possible to fulfill monoliths on GRID and in that case it would be possible to launch SQLServer on 10000 processors and 100TB storages and all would be not necessary these noSQL.