Topic: Mathematics vs computer science

Here already there was a similar subject, I want to formulate a subject a little in another way. When the programmer develops something difficult, is frequent before it there are tasks both from mathematics area, and from "computer science". There is a question, the edge between these two sciences is how much blurred? It seems to me, it is rather blurred, and it is possible to find many the intermediate examples which are in any place of a scale "from mathematics to programming". Here examples of three tasks (optimization receptions) which as I understand, are in this boundary and from the first example to the third there is the smooth passage from mathematics to : - at multiplication of matrixes to replace a part of multiplyings with additions; - at division of set of numbers into a constant to replace with its multiplication of these numbers to number, reverse to this constant; - to multiply a loop body that on one iteration it was necessary on the average less operators of the conditional passages. What else it is possible to invent examples?

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Khimik, you wrote: K> Here already there was a similar subject, I want to formulate a subject a little in another way. K> When the programmer develops something difficult, is frequent before it there are tasks both from mathematics area, and from "computer science". There is a question, the edge between these two sciences is how much blurred? Computer Science it is mathematics subsection. Therefore the question is inappropriate. K> - at multiplication of matrixes to replace a part of multiplyings with additions; K> - at division of set of numbers into a constant to replace with its multiplication of these numbers to number, reverse to this constant; K> - to multiply a loop body that on one iteration it was necessary on the average less operators of the conditional passages. Also what in it not the mathematical?

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Khimik, you wrote: K> Here already there was a similar subject, I want to formulate a subject a little in another way. K> When the programmer develops something difficult, is frequent before it there are tasks both from mathematics area, and from "computer science". There is a question, the edge between these two sciences is how much blurred? It seems to me, it is rather blurred, and it is possible to find many the intermediate examples which are in any place of a scale "from mathematics to programming". computer science actually any not sciense and not programming are different sections of mathematics. Programming is one more section of mathematics. A difference only in what models you use in the program - purely mathematical models, say, a sine-kosinus, or models corresponding to objects of the real world. If the first it is strongly rare,  for the sake of mathematics. If the second the appropriate science - physics, biology, or other sphere of activity, for example inventory will be tightened here, imposition, insurance and .

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Ikemefula, you wrote: I> computer science actually any not sciense and not programming are different sections of mathematics. Programming is one more section of mathematics. Programming - not mathematics. One of varieties of engineering craft.... <<RSDN@Home 1.2.0 alpha 5 rev. 1495>>

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, pagid, you wrote: I>> computer science actually any not sciense and not programming are different sections of mathematics. Programming is one more section of mathematics. P> programming - not mathematics. One of varieties of engineering craft. It  in engineering also consists hardly more than completely, of mathematics.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Ikemefula, you wrote: I> It  in engineering also consists hardly more than completely, of mathematics. It is mathematics it is applied in programming, as well as in other engineering disciplines. And programming does not consist of mathematics.... <<RSDN@Home 1.2.0 alpha 5 rev. 1495>>

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Khimik, you wrote: CS . A mathematics special case, same as well as physics. The physics studies . The world, cs - . Devices and them sv-va. Well and algorithms everyones. Well there absolutely the edge is erased.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> CS . A mathematics special case, same as well as physics. And physics not a mathematics special case. It uses the mathematics as the tool.... <<RSDN@Home 1.2.0 alpha 5 rev. 1495>>

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, pagid, you wrote: P> Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S>> CS . A mathematics special case, same as well as physics. P> and physics not a mathematics special case. It uses the mathematics as the tool. Well physicists like to say that mathematics - physics with cheap experiments. Why not to turn out on the contrary?

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, pagid, you wrote: P> Programming - not mathematics. One of varieties of engineering craft. The grandfather the Whip so does not think.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Khimik, you wrote: K> Here already there was a similar subject, I want to formulate a subject a little in another way. K> When the programmer develops something difficult, is frequent before it there are tasks both from mathematics area, and from "computer science". There is a question, the edge between these two sciences is how much blurred? , the mathematics is a pure science. Calculus mathematics - the applied science, called to invent and implement methods for application of computers in the decision of mathematical tasks or usages of these in others application-oriented or not so, sciences and crafts. Methods practically always confidants. This empirical judgement, not the rigid statement.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Khimik, you wrote: Mathematics - a science about some abstraction. The real world to it, in general is not necessary, it quitted it (geometry at ancient Greeks), but for a long time it came off. That to it, for example before that the physical world three-dimensional (I do not consider space-time) - would be desirable it to have multidimentional spaces, has the right. If then its outputs somehow correspond to the real world - remarkably, and these theories can be applied in those sciences which study the real world. If do not correspond - it quite manages. Perhaps once in the real world also there will be something to what this mathematical theory can be applied. For example, the group theory when its Galois and its predecessors created, any side to chemistry did not lie, and then was suddenly clarified that it not bad approaches for the description of symmetry of crystals. The abstract: mathematicians - the device, which some elements can be used in sciences about the real world. To the physicist, chemistries, programming, building and square-cluster cultivation of tomatoes.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Khimik, you wrote: K> [...] Once for a long time I for myself formulated that if want to forget mathematics, be engaged in programming. It, of course, the joke, but in it is not only a joke share. By the experience I can tell that: 1. The geometry was not useful. Entirely all. I understand that if I was engaged in 3D-affairs some sections of geometry would be the working tool. But so - alas. 2. Algebra  at the rate of about 2nd class of high school. That is all device is ///. For all long labor activity in industrial development used a logarithm 2 (in words: two) time. 3.  and statistics at the analysis of data arrays , but besides at level of first one and a half institute lectures. I remember, how somehow time in talk to colleagues (class , by the way) screwed what here to take better not the arithmetic average, and a median. Caught glass sights. 4. And only the theory of sets together with predicate calculus - bread and salt because databases is it and is. Though my colleagues on struggle manage to have a good time databejz-design   requests, at all without knowing a word "predicate". 5.  something on a subject of any "high" sections of type of the linear algebra, differential, integral and operational numerations,  and other horror, was possible exactly 0 (in words: a zero) time. At all I do not know, whether to grieve to me about it... So communication IT with mathematics it is faster a myth, than a reality. As the tool which is working out ability to demonstrative thinking, the mathematics is, of course, invaluable but if to speak about it as about the total of knowledge then, excuse, programming separately, and mathematics separately. Such affairs.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Khimik, you wrote: K> What else it is possible to invent examples? Now, for example, I potter about here with it: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa289166.aspx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinato … ber_system the Typical joint of combinatorics and CS. It Is necessary for me for the decision of one small task on handling of signals in applications to communication.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> Once for a long time I for myself formulated that if want to forget mathematics, be engaged in programming. It, of course, the joke, but in it is not only a joke share. By the experience I can tell that: V> 1. The geometry was not useful. Entirely all. I understand that if I was engaged in 3D-affairs some sections of geometry would be the working tool. But so - alas. Geometry it not only a ruler and a compasses, this distinct logical thinking. To fulfill such mechanics any more on what. V> 2. Algebra  at the rate of about 2nd class of high school. That is all device is ///. For all long labor activity in industrial development used a logarithm 2 (in words: two) time. For this purpose that you in mind would do approximate , even on home subjects, the mathematician should be pumped over strongly enough. V> 3.  and statistics at the analysis of data arrays , but besides at level of first one and a half institute lectures. I remember, how somehow time in talk to colleagues (class , by the way) screwed what here to take better not the arithmetic average, and a median. Caught glass sights. Here  from item 2. Probability theory and statistics demand much more than arithmetical actions. V> 4. And only the theory of sets together with predicate calculus - bread and salt because databases is it and is. Though my colleagues on struggle manage to have a good time databejz-design   requests, at all without knowing a word "predicate". The theory of sets and predicate calculus are serious abstractions. At people without formation such and close does not appear, them ' the common sense ' works on absolutely other gasoline. The algebra and geometry in particular are necessary for this purpose that you generally could work with abstractions. V> 5.  something on a subject of any "high" sections of type of the linear algebra, differential, integral and operational numerations,  and other horror, was possible exactly 0 (in words: a zero) time. At all I do not know, whether to grieve to me about it...  it in the pure state abstractions which in real life it is equal 0. You learned to operate with abstractions at school. V> so communication IT with mathematics it is faster a myth, than a reality. As the tool which is working out ability to demonstrative thinking, the mathematics is, of course, invaluable but if to speak about it as about the total of knowledge then, excuse, programming separately, and mathematics separately. Such affairs. This total of knowledge is more likely ghost effect. As soon as you will find a method to pump over the abstract thinking without mathematics, at once start to wait for Nobelevku.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, pagid, you wrote: P> Programming - not mathematics. One of varieties of engineering craft. The engineering craft quite often leans against mathematics.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, pagid, you wrote: I>> It  in engineering also consists hardly more than completely, of mathematics. P> it is mathematics it is applied in programming, as well as in other engineering disciplines. The EC Th. I.e. without mathematics programming turns to profanation.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Voblin, you wrote: V> So communication IT with mathematics it is faster a myth, than a reality. On sphere of activity depends. IT it is too wide. Someone writes warehouses with accounts departments on ready "engines", so there algebras for 5th class of high school for eyes. And someone solves optimization tasks (the linear programming) either tasks on columns or handling of signals. In general, programming as a whole is an application-oriented part of mathematics. But also programming of "purely mathematical tasks", it, more likely, applied programming, just as programming, say, biological or chemical tasks.))

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, rising_edge, you wrote: P>> Programming - not mathematics. One of varieties of engineering craft. _> the grandfather the Whip so does not think. Grandfather Knutt - not the engineer

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, vdimas, you wrote: V> the EC Th. I.e. without mathematics programming turns to profanation. Almost any engineering activity turns without mathematics to profanation.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, vdimas, you wrote: V> the Engineering craft quite often leans against mathematics. Almost always, but in mathematics from it does not become.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Ikemefula, you wrote: V>> 1. The geometry was not useful. Entirely all. I understand that if I was engaged in 3D-affairs some sections of geometry would be the working tool. But so - alas. I> Geometry it not only a ruler and a compasses, this distinct logical thinking. To fulfill such mechanics any more on what. Here very much . I now sat down on such toy as Euclidea. A thing! Especially when business concerns not simply creations, and restrictions on kol-in lines or the elementary creations are superimposed. Logical thinking in the pure state. Also it becomes by the way clear, why all began with geometry and Euclid. Into the account of working off of mechanics I would argue - than chess did not please as alternative?

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: I>> Geometry it not only a ruler and a compasses, this distinct logical thinking. To fulfill such mechanics any more on what. S> Here very much . I now sat down on such toy as Euclidea. A thing! Especially when business concerns not simply creations, and restrictions on kol-in lines or the elementary creations are superimposed. Logical thinking in the pure state. Also it becomes by the way clear, why all began with geometry and Euclid. Into the account of working off of mechanics I would argue - than chess did not please as alternative? In geometry and  you can check up yourself more simple methods. In chess very difficultly independently to find the answer - what to find an error in the account, it is necessary to find an error in the account Besides, chess you ' you feel ' figures, instead of combinations. And certainly, chess does not give basis for physics, chemistry and other things. They generally give  which are a little applicable in real life, except several exceptions.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, pagid, you wrote: I>> computer science actually any not sciense and not programming are different sections of mathematics. Programming is one more section of mathematics. P> programming - not mathematics. One of varieties of engineering craft. And computer science is a science generalizing and classifying knowledge of programming. And here computer science it is intersected with mathematics. With that that computer science is a section of mathematics in a root do not agree. Here we tell OOP patterns is computer science, but in any way mathematics. And here algorithms are already and computer science and mathematics. So I would define computer science as a science intersected with mathematics. And programming, as an engineering speciality using computer science as a basic science.

Re: Mathematics vs computer science

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> CS . A mathematics special case, same as well as physics. The physics studies . The world, cs - . Devices and them sv-va. Well and algorithms everyones. Well there absolutely the edge is erased. In my opinion is not a part, and uses. In the same way and the physics with chemistry uses mathematics for provision of formulas and calculations.