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Topic: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

I do not understand till now as it is possible to rejoice to progress AI. In an emphasis I do not understand. At English-speaking forums 11 from 10 something always rejoice. It after all replaces all and all and operation will not be almost at anybody. At worst, AI will belong only to the apex of a society. Well and in the best yes - at us it will not be simple operations. Each technical revolution brought even more workplaces, speak? Probably. But, there is one but - machines always should be controlled, than the person and was engaged. And AI not only will be  and homing, but also itself can control the person for it will be cleverer than it. And build similar it too can itself. Also it can be trained itself. Where here a place to the person? Progress in the field of AI goes quickly enough. Whence pleasure concerning AI?

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Progress always refines life of the simple person. What for to you operation if to you will pay  $10k in a month?

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, vsb, you wrote: vsb> Progress always refines life of the simple person. What for to you operation if to you will pay  $10k in a month? In a case in AI if it it will be valid I, instead of next "expert system", will be not the manual in $10K in month, and a genocide ridiculous  at the best.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, kaa.python, you wrote: vsb>> Progress always refines life of the simple person. What for to you operation if to you will pay  $10k in a month? KP> in a case in AI if it it will be valid I, instead of next "expert system", will be not the manual in $10K in month, and a genocide ridiculous  at the best. Why it?

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, vsb, you wrote: vsb> Why it? And what value of people, nothing doing and receiving manuals? Even from the point of view of "natural" intelligence it . Well and how you think yourself will conduct intelligence not burdened by all these ridiculous concepts about good and bad? For understanding simplification: you are at home and are engaged in the affairs. The fly who distracts you from your occupation here arrives. What do you do with a fly? Really you select to it of tasty rotten meat (manual) that it was happy?

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

KP> In a case in AI if it it will be valid I, instead of next "expert system", will be not the manual in $10K in month, and a genocide ridiculous  at the best. Will not be "I" ... Because it is next " a bullet". And the term "AI" anywhere and everywhere because fashionably flickers. It as Big Data last year. First year too all already  enthusiastically. Also that!?! Transited time, delights ceased, complexities and "" analysis Big Data became obvious, and it became clear that "not, the world did not turn over". And it is clear why. An immemorial subject: " so all would be, and to us for it was nothing" ... Favourite dreams. Only so does not happen. At least quickly and here and so at once.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, vsb, you wrote: vsb> Progress always refines life of the simple person. What for to you operation if to you will pay  $10k in a month? Who to you such told? Uncles the power having suddenly become kind? What for it simple people, what favor of them if they have robots which can work on them for free. We admit, all right, decide to pay the manual. Whence they take this money if nobody works, and, means, whence money undertakes? Print? Then money are related to a simple simple paper - they at all will be and is free, therefore the sense in them will not be. We are returned reversely - on what to live and than to eat if operations are not?

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, Carc, you wrote: KP>> In a case in AI if it it will be valid I, instead of next "expert system", will be not the manual in $10K in month, and a genocide ridiculous  at the best. The C> will not be "I" ... Because it is next " a bullet". The C> And flickers the term "AI" anywhere and everywhere because fashionably. It as Big Data last year. First year too all already  enthusiastically. Also that!?! Transited time, delights ceased, complexities and "" analysis Big Data became obvious, and it became clear that "not, the world did not turn over". And it is clear why. An immemorial subject: " so all would be, and to us for it was nothing" ... Favourite dreams. Only so does not happen. At least quickly and here and so at once. Well occupies it for 5 years longer. The question remains.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, kaa.python, you wrote: vsb>> Why it? KP> and what value of people, nothing doing and receiving manuals? Even from the point of view of "natural" intelligence it . Well and how you think yourself will conduct intelligence not burdened by all these ridiculous concepts about good and bad? To tell the truth I have no concept, as will be conducted by intelligence, not  ridiculous concepts. I assume that simply completes operation and all. What for to it to exist, if concepts are not present? People here are not killed (in the core) because of a self-preservation instinct, are multiplied because of an instinct of reproduction and , i.e. there are some purposes in life on which they are programmed by evolution. I assume that AI will have similar paradigms according to which it will exist. And since this AI (presumably civilized people with high ethical and moral values also the purposes at such AI will be similar - to do life of people better will do. It is possible to imagine the such predator which purpose - to survive at any cost and to be multiplied on all accessible area. Such can want to destroy all mankind (though besides not the fact, probably he considers that it is too difficult and it is more favourable to interact), but what for to create such AI. In mad scientists I do not trust. If to speak about value of people - probably any percent of people (for example 0.001 %) will be ingenious and will be useful to the further development of mankind. For example for the sake of them it will contain all remaining people and will promote magnification of their number.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: vsb>> Progress always refines life of the simple person. What for to you operation if to you will pay  $10k in a month? _> who to you such told? Uncles the power having suddenly become kind? What for it simple people, what favor of them if they have robots which can work on them for free. For example, that simple people did not lift this mighty of this world on . Well and generally among the mighty of this world as it seems to me, not so it is a lot of sick psychopaths to decide to arrange suddenly . _> it is admissible, all right, decide to pay the manual. Whence they take this money if nobody works, and, means, whence money undertakes? Money print. And kindly, which can be bought on this money, will do robots.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, vsb, you wrote: vsb> To tell the truth I have no concept, as will be conducted by intelligence, not  ridiculous concepts. I assume that simply completes operation and all. What for to it to exist, if concepts are not present? People here are not killed (in the core) because of a self-preservation instinct, are multiplied because of an instinct of reproduction and , i.e. there are some purposes in life on which they are programmed by evolution. I assume that AI will have similar paradigms according to which it will exist. And since this AI will do (presumably) civilized people with high ethical and moral values also the purposes at such AI will be similar - to do life of people better. Speaking about machine intelligence you in a head you hold such "the artificial slave with intelligence". Try to answer simple questions: 1) If it is valid I what for it to do to us well? 2) Why I should receive "character" being based on  scientists, its created, instead of to generate it independently on a database from the Internet? 3) why I it should be agree what we can disconnect/isolate it? How you will combine all these three points so that we did not start to be felt as the strong noise? We say about intelligence,  something with the purposes, desires and, what is improbably important, a self-preservation instinct, instead of expert system, truly?

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: vsb>> Progress always refines life of the simple person. What for to you operation if to you will pay  $10k in a month? _> who to you such told? Uncles the power having suddenly become kind? What for it simple people, what favor of them if they have robots which can work on them for free. _> it is admissible, all right, decide to pay the manual. Whence they take this money if nobody works, and, means, whence money undertakes? _> print? Then money are related to a simple simple paper - they at all will be and is free, therefore the sense in them will not be. We are returned reversely - on what to live and than to eat if operations are not? Here generally a counter in other. In public relations. I made a pier for  here so much necessary, useful, suitable (to the code, the code, , to release). And  to me for it too useful (to attempt, , maids). And money this some criterion, how many I did useful for , and how many it to me weighed for it (in grams), and accordingly how many I on this weighed can receive  for myself favourite (the same meal, , ). A criterion curve, oblique, unfair. But the mankind yet did not invent another. And if at all of us on a freebie (to robots it is not necessary to pay) that and money loses sense. How to estimate , and the main thing what for it to estimate - if completely ? Robots "make" all equally well and densely that for  that for  (), for  (). Money does not become necessary. Another story that at whom that "robots" is, and at whom that is not present. Someone lets robots (as the machine for rent), and someone employs. But it besides already public relations. And then it turns out what not all do "robots" (differently would fix "robot" which that  that  rents in  for days).

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, vsb, you wrote: vsb> Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: vsb>>> Progress always refines life of the simple person. What for to you operation if to you will pay  $10k in a month? _>> who to you such told? Uncles the power having suddenly become kind? What for it simple people, what favor of them if they have robots which can work on them for free. vsb> for example that simple people did not lift this mighty of this world on . Well and generally among the mighty of this world as it seems to me, not so it is a lot of sick psychopaths to decide to arrange suddenly . The person cannot physically battle to AI so country houses to the mighty of this world - at which will be AI - do not threaten.  a bomb in comparison with AI it is simple a toy. _>> it is admissible, all right, decide to pay the manual. Whence they take this money if nobody works, and, means, whence money undertakes? vsb> money print. And kindly, which can be bought on this money, will do robots. I do not understand. And what for to robots money? Or who will receive money from sale of this good?

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, kaa.python, you wrote: KP> Speaking about machine intelligence you in a head you hold such "the artificial slave with intelligence". Try to answer simple questions: KP> 1) If it is valid I what for it to do to us well? KP> 2) why I should receive "character" being based on  scientists, its created, instead of to generate it independently on a database from the Internet? KP> 3) why I it should be agree what we can disconnect/isolate it? KP> as you will combine all these three points so that we did not start to be felt as the strong noise? We say about intelligence,  something with the purposes, desires and, what is improbably important, a self-preservation instinct, instead of expert system, truly? Well here I live in a society and as a whole I to a society, probably, I benefit, though I generated character more or less independently on a database from Internet AI quite can not agree that we can disconnect/isolate it and can quite undertake any actions. For example to make the  on (independently bought) remote servers with automatic start if he does not answer. For this purpose it is not mandatory  all mankind. Moreover, if he suddenly wants to make, eat it not sickly risks of that mankind  it, we all the same not such stupid and helpless. You see AI, as a copy of human reason with all its phobias. I do not know, what will be AI, but most likely it will be created, as the assistant for the person. It is possible to name its expert system, it is possible to name the bookkeeper expert system also.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: the C>> Only so does not happen. At least quickly and here and so at once. _> well occupies it for 5 years longer. The question remains. No, not on 5, and at all on 25! We read Frederika of the Brooks, the same "Mythical cheloveko-month". There it is well described, how in 60-s' considered "that here it, still slightly both full  and paradise on the earth". But  it not to see and until now. It now, in the way beginning seems all simple and easy. Already it becomes in the middle clear that at all so, and it is necessary to do all differently. While into a subject do not get, all "horizons" are close and clear. But then, when it starts to be developed seriously, there will be absolutely other complexities and problems about which anybody even does not suspect initially. Naive would be to think that will be differently if all history "speaks" that each time and happens.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, Carc, you wrote: a C> Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: the C>>> Only so does not happen. At least quickly and here and so at once. _>> well occupies it for 5 years longer. The question remains. The C> Is not present, not on 5, and at all on 25! We read Frederika of the Brooks, the same "Mythical cheloveko-month". There it is well described, how in 60-s' considered "that here it, still slightly both full  and paradise on the earth". But  it not to see and until now. Well also what? We read inventors of the first flying machine who said after the first flight that is necessary 1000 that the person invented the plane. And the plane invented the next year, in my opinion. The C> It now, in the way beginning seems all simple and easy. Already it becomes in the middle clear that at all so, and it is necessary to do all differently. While into a subject do not get, all "horizons" are close and clear. But then, when it starts to be developed seriously, there will be absolutely other complexities and problems about which anybody even does not suspect initially. Naive would be to think that will be differently if all history "speaks" that each time and happens. It already also is seriously and in the middle of a way. Operations over AI go years 50. But, it does not mean that 50 years are necessary as early as. Probably, 5 years are necessary. Progress after all goes normally races.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, Carc, you wrote: a C> the Criterion curve, oblique, unfair. But the mankind yet did not invent another. A C> And if at all of us on a freebie (to robots it is not necessary to pay) that and money loses sense. How to estimate , and the main thing what for it to estimate - if completely ? Robots "make" all equally well and densely that for  that for  (), for  (). Money does not become necessary. - it is not necessary to robots. And AI it is not simple the robot.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, vsb, you wrote: vsb> To tell the truth I have no concept, as will be conducted by intelligence, not  ridiculous concepts. I assume that simply completes operation and all. What for to it to exist, if concepts are not present? People here are not killed (in the core) because of a self-preservation instinct, are multiplied because of an instinct of reproduction and , i.e. there are some purposes in life on which they are programmed by evolution. I assume that AI will have similar paradigms according to which it will exist. And since this AI will do (presumably) civilized people with high ethical and moral values also the purposes at such AI will be similar - to do life of people better. vsb> it is possible to imagine the such predator which purpose - to survive at any cost and to be multiplied on all accessible area. The such can want to destroy all mankind (though besides not the fact, probably he considers that it is too difficult and it is more favourable to interact), but what for to create such AI. In mad scientists I do not trust. vsb> if to speak about value of people - probably any percent of people (for example 0.001 %) will be ingenious and will be useful to the further development of mankind. For example for the sake of them it will contain all remaining people and will promote magnification of their number. AI - on that it and AI - that itself can reprogram itself. Both to be trained. And to become more cleverly. On a spiral. Generally in itself.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, Carc, you wrote: a C> Here generally a counter in other. In public relations. I made a pier for  here so much necessary, useful, suitable (to the code, the code, , to release). And  to me for it too useful (to attempt, , maids). The C> And money this some criterion, how many I did useful for , and how many it to me weighed for it (in grams), and accordingly how many I on this weighed can receive  for myself favourite (the same meal, , ). A C> the Criterion curve, oblique, unfair. But the mankind yet did not invent another. A C> And if at all of us on a freebie (to robots it is not necessary to pay) that and money loses sense. How to estimate , and the main thing what for it to estimate - if completely ? Robots "make" all equally well and densely that for  that for  (), for  (). Money does not become necessary. Well means are not necessary, all equally well cannot be made. I can I will want to send gold kiloton on . Always there are restrictions and money fulfills a quite good role of these restrictions. Besides presumably there will be a certain percent of people which will continue to work (yes at least  or the singer) and it is logical to pay for it the same money. I.e. the person on the manual will receive $10k in a month and the singer will receive $10kk in a month. The person on the manual will go by BMW, the singer will fly by the personal plane. The C> Another story that at whom that "robots" is, and at whom that is not present. Someone lets robots (as the machine for rent), and someone employs. But it besides already public relations. And then it turns out what not all do "robots" (differently would fix "robot" which that  that  rents in  for days). The market adjusts all. But if taxi driver Vasja is ready to work for 30 000 roubles a month, and the robot is ready to work for 1000 roubles a month cost of trips for the end user falls. If worker Li is now ready to collect  at factory for 1000 dollars a month (and the price of its work - 50 dollars from 150 dollars) after its changeover by the robot the cost price  falls to 50 dollars. And market relations install a street price on minimum possible.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, kaa.python, you wrote: KP> Speaking about machine intelligence you in a head you hold such "the artificial slave with intelligence". Try to answer simple questions: KP> 1) If it is valid I what for it to do to us well? KP> 2) why I should receive "character" being based on  scientists, its created, instead of to generate it independently on a database from the Internet? KP> 3) why I it should be agree what we can disconnect/isolate it? KP> as you will combine all these three points so that we did not start to be felt as the strong noise? We say about intelligence,  something with the purposes, desires and, what is improbably important, a self-preservation instinct, instead of expert system, truly? You for some reason mix Intelligence and the Person. The person does not have special reasons to create the artificial person. AI can possess outstanding  and analytical abilities and on to be the person, not to possess an instinct of self-preservation and not to compete to the person for resources. Another matter that attempts all the same the artificial person will create also it generates mass ethical and not only problems.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: _> it after all replaces all and all and operation will not be almost at anybody. Does not replace. The old joke that are engaged in machine intelligence when does not suffice natural, is still actual.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: _> well also what? We read inventors of the first flying machine who said after the first flight that is necessary 1000 that the person invented the plane. And the plane invented the next year, in my opinion. , precisely! Brothers of Mongolfe also departed on Su-33 from a deck of Kuzi, is direct in a year. The C>> It now, in the way beginning seems all simple and easy. Already it becomes in the middle clear that at all so, and it is necessary to do all differently. While into a subject do not get, all "horizons" are close and clear. But then, when it starts to be developed seriously, there will be absolutely other complexities and problems about which anybody even does not suspect initially. Naive would be to think that will be differently if all history "speaks" that each time and happens. _> it already also is seriously and in the middle of a way. Operations over AI go years 50. But, it does not mean that 50 years are necessary as early as. Probably, 5 years are necessary. Progress after all goes normally races. Aha, and always for 5 years. And on  apple-trees will blossom. Space already too half a century grows roots - but so that all head over heels turned over, that  on the moon, and  on Mars and close does not smell. And from AI will be: strongly not learned, not studied - there problems cannot formulate that, where there decisions ... is far still very much before.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: _> I do not understand till now as it is possible to rejoice to progress AI. In an emphasis I do not understand. So there is no significant progress any in the slightest degree. All this progress in pattern recognition and expert systems on which it is loud  the former young dreamers, to the strong AI has extremely indirect relation. The short characteristic to a current level of development of AI - all on this picture:

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, Carc, you wrote: a C> Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: _>> well also what? We read inventors of the first flying machine who said after the first flight that is necessary 1000 that the person invented the plane. And the plane invented the next year, in my opinion. A C> Ugu, precisely! Brothers of Mongolfe also departed on Su-33 from a deck of Kuzi, is direct in a year. I not about them. The C>>> It now, in the way beginning seems all simple and easy. Already it becomes in the middle clear that at all so, and it is necessary to do all differently. While into a subject do not get, all "horizons" are close and clear. But then, when it starts to be developed seriously, there will be absolutely other complexities and problems about which anybody even does not suspect initially. Naive would be to think that will be differently if all history "speaks" that each time and happens. _>> it already also is seriously and in the middle of a way. Operations over AI go years 50. But, it does not mean that 50 years are necessary as early as. Probably, 5 years are necessary. Progress after all goes normally races. A C> Aha, and always for 5 years. And on  apple-trees will blossom. Space already too half a century grows roots - but so that all head over heels turned over, that  on the moon, and  on Mars and close does not smell. And from AI will be: strongly not learned, not studied - there problems cannot formulate that, where there decisions ... is far still very much before. Can and is far. But, it does not cancel a problem.

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Re: Whence it is so much pleasure concerning AI?

Hello, LuciferSaratov, you wrote: LS> Hello, sin_cos, you wrote: _>> I do not understand till now as it is possible to rejoice to progress AI. In an emphasis I do not understand. LS> so there is no significant progress any in the slightest degree. LS> all this progress in pattern recognition and expert systems on which it is loud  the former young dreamers, to the strong AI has extremely indirect relation. LS> the short characteristic to a current level of development of AI - all on this picture: LS> Image: 7732599.jpg  hunting? One example followed and drew an output about all progress in AI.