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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Kaifa, you wrote: It is sad. And at us the trolleybus factory can be closed

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: K>> in general, this type of transport it is possible  and to develop, instead of to refuse it. E> It is possible, but to develop two more difficult and more expensively, than one... In  for some reason decided to invent anew, instead of took the ready underground. The underground will saw the compositions, the Russian Railway - to sharpen swallows under that, under what they not so that and are calculated. K>> in Moscow almost never by ground transport went because of corks. Easier and more conveniently by the underground to reach, and then on foot within 3 km to walk. E> such district of Moscow how Zelenograd, you know?. I know, but never there was. I far from the underground need to go rarely enough, and there is easier by a taxi to reach, than to understand routes. K>> I will check more likely that Liksutov wants, that the servants stood in corks in FROM, and elite easy went by personal cars. E> trust. . E> Generally it about once a month gives the big interview in a morning ether of station "Moscow Speaks". You can listen. It it is detailed all ideas explains... All of them much that speak, and upon do absolutely another. K>>>> while all civilized world is transplanted on the electrician, we refuse it. E>>> All . The world lives CONSIDERABLY to the south. K>> If the problem only and miscalculates heating then all is solved. At desire it is possible and to thrust separately a petrol oven if so on money it will be more favourable. E> and in a freezing, in an icing of wires, in cleaning of roadsides and it is a lot of in what still... At all it in a heap of cities tickets on  cost cheaper buses and it not the south any, and a climate plus-minus as in Moscow. K>> in public transport eternally froze. In the street 20 minutes stand wait freeze, then while go from a stop to a stop of 5 minutes, the salon is not heated at all. E> it where such ? In Penza about 10 years ago.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Idiocy! I often on center of Moscow go by trolley buses, when I happen in Moscow.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> I here will not understand, that all so  trolley buses? E> here personally the canceling of some minibuses, for example is much more of me . And changeover of trolls by buses, IMHO, transits is made seamlessly. In what the reason of all these jumps and grimaces? Buses - not harmless type of transport, in comparison with trolley buses or trams. (As well as a diesel locomotive not harmless type of the locomotive in comparison with an electric locomotive or . When at us in Russia electrify the railways ---------- (- Vitebsk), Obozersky - Arkhangelsk, Konosha - Kotlas - Mikun - Vorkuta, the Necklace - Nodal - Yelets, Michurinsk - Tambov - Rtishchevo, Inza - Ulyanovsk - Bugulma - Kandry, Anisovsky - Urbah - Ershov - Ozinki, Kinel - Orenburg, the Red Node - Peshelan, the Red Node - Kanash, Kostroma - Galich, Shahovsky - Rzhev, Luga - Pskov, Novolisino - Novgorod?)

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: K> In  for some reason decided to invent anew, instead of took the ready underground. The underground will saw the compositions, the Russian Railway - to sharpen swallows under that, under what they not so that and are calculated. On  it is swallows super, do not drive on them.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: K> In public transport eternally froze. In the street 20 minutes stand wait freeze, then while go from a stop to a stop of 5 minutes, the salon is not heated at all. And so because of whom in public transport heat, as in a bath! That all of you such  to put on on weather the religion does not allow?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> Hello, Micht, you wrote: M>> Dynamics at a trolley bus, however, much better, than at any bus. E> Nafiga in FROM the speaker? That from a stop and a traffic light to drive off with a speed hardly  speeds of the sick pregnant woman of a turtle? M>> profile experts state that as a whole trolley buses manage more cheaply (yes, with the registration of all expenditures). E> I Think it it is impossible to tell, without counting the full deal. Here people also counted.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Stanislaw K, you wrote: SK> because trolley buses walk on the routes (distinct from bus, though also coinciding partially). Probably. But, nothing hinders the mayoralty at first to replace trolls with buses, and then already to start to optimize or "optimize" SK> the replaced trolleybus routes cause sharp invincible desire  "in the core a conterminous part". And as a result change (and time and again) customary routes and "trolley buses" and buses. So in flow of year nobody will know a minimum as today to reach from a point and in a point. And process "under requests of townspeople" will be optimized by places of year three. Well, on idea, improvings in a network owe to people it is pleasant, and impairments the mayoralty is not obliged to lead.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Irrbis, you wrote: I> I do not know for Moscow, but in Saratov from buses to saw the budget easier. Easier, than from what? If than from trolls, why? Type fuel steal?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: K> In  for some reason decided to invent anew, instead of took the ready underground. The underground will saw the compositions, the Russian Railway - to sharpen swallows under that, under what they not so that and are calculated. The ready underground there where is  is not present... Generally all sense  - to discharge the underground at center from the transit traffic. K> I know, but never there was. I far from the underground need to go rarely enough, and there is easier by a taxi to reach, than to understand routes. Well your experience so we tell, is very far from model of usage FROM which Ljuksutov wants  among Muscovites. K> all of them much that speaks, and upon do absolutely another. I do not know. I yet did not note that that he speaks, somehow strongly disperses that it does. Meanwhile discrepancies were that they increase the prices for parkings not so aggressively as their models order, and promised to enter uncompromisingly. K> in Penza about 10 years ago. In Moscow and 10 years ago and, especially now, in buses normally like.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: E>> Here personally the canceling of some minibuses, for example is much more of me . And changeover of trolls by buses, IMHO, transits is made seamlessly. In what the reason of all these jumps and grimaces? K> that in Moscow removed recently, that the population especially did not note it? Here and  remove - becomes even worse. Minibuses, for example, somehow did not cause  generally...

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> Buses - not harmless type of transport, in comparison with trolley buses or trams. You want to tell, what it simply religion? RF> (as well as a diesel locomotive not harmless type of the locomotive in comparison with an electric locomotive or . When at us in Russia electrify the railways ---------- (- Vitebsk), Obozersky - Arkhangelsk, Konosha - Kotlas - Mikun - Vorkuta, the Necklace - Nodal - Yelets, Michurinsk - Tambov - Rtishchevo, Inza - Ulyanovsk - Bugulma - Kandry, Anisovsky - Urbah - Ershov - Ozinki, Kinel - Orenburg, the Red Node - Peshelan, the Red Node - Kanash, Kostroma - Galich, Shahovsky - Rzhev, Luga - Pskov, Novolisino - Novgorod?) what for?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Micht, you wrote: M> That from a stop and a traffic light to drive off with a speed hardly  speeds of the sick pregnant woman of a turtle? I do not know about what you, but all buses by which I went, were able to be accelerated so what to stand in them was , at least. Accelerations FROM are restricted at all and not , and standing passengers. E>> I think it it is impossible to tell, without counting the full deal. M> here people also counted. What counted? How they considered dynamics of the remaining traffic?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> I often on center of Moscow go by trolley buses, when I happen in Moscow. If them replace with buses, something for you changes?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: M>> Here people also counted. E> that counted? How they considered dynamics of the remaining traffic? Once again (last) - people, profile experts, took and counted the general expenses for a bus line and for the trolleybus. With the registration of purchase of a rolling stock, the equipment of park, the content of all this good, training of certain experts, and all other. The trolley bus is cheaper.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> the Ready underground there where is  is not present... By the way, an example of consequences of worthless architecture of the project of the underground from the Soviet designers. Here that hindered metro station where they rather near to , to construct absolutely near to it that now it was possible to organize fast passages, instead of for 10-20 minutes on foot to stamp. Vojkovsky, for example.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: K>> In  for some reason decided to invent anew, instead of took the ready underground. The underground will saw the compositions, the Russian Railway - to sharpen swallows under that, under what they not so that and are calculated. E> the ready underground there where is  is not present... E> Generally all sense  - to discharge the underground at center from the transit traffic. So the underground that  - one essence. Could take ready checked up  compositions and not to produce entities, after all it would be cheaper (more cheaply to develop buses and to hammer on trolley buses). K>> I Know, but never there was. I far from the underground need to go rarely enough, and there is easier by a taxi to reach, than to understand routes. E> well your experience so we tell, is very far from model of usage FROM which Ljuksutov wants  among Muscovites. I also do not claim for objectivity. What model of usage FROM Liksutov advances? What they there can make useful if do not use FROM, and back coupling from inhabitants from time to time looks impudent lies? To sense from new buses and routes if periodically it is possible to reach them only in fishing rubber boots?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: E>>> Here personally the canceling of some minibuses, for example is much more of me . And changeover of trolls by buses, IMHO, transits is made seamlessly. In what the reason of all these jumps and grimaces? K>> that in Moscow removed recently, that the population especially did not note it? Here and  remove - becomes even worse. E> minibuses, for example, somehow did not cause  generally... But dissatisfied people are available. From paid parkings of boilings it is more, but also absence of minibuses of convenience did not add to people.

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Micht, you wrote: M> Once again (last) - people, profile experts, took and counted the general expenses for a bus line and for the trolleybus. With the registration of purchase of a rolling stock, the equipment of park, the content of all this good, training of certain experts, and all other. The trolley bus is cheaper. And it is necessary to consider not a line in vacuum against a line in vacuum, and such or other system of transport of a city. For example, the trolleybus line is more difficult for changing, if at me in a city five buses and three trolley buses manoeuvre by transport is very restricted. I strongly suspect that the decision from ONE trolley buses and the decision from ONE buses BOTH will be cheaper. And it we yet did not consider how much  and the bus hinder the remaining traffic. And that appears suddenly that under trolley buses it is necessary to expand roads on half-meter, for saving of the same throughput and to clean in 100 times more expensive method

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: K> So the underground that  - one essence. All infrastructure different. And  it is used not only for electric trains like as, but also for loads. K> to sense from new buses and routes if periodically it is possible to reach them only in fishing rubber boots? In Moscow?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: K>> to Sense from new buses and routes if periodically it is possible to reach them only in fishing rubber boots? E> in Moscow? In it

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: K>>> to Sense from new buses and routes if periodically it is possible to reach them only in fishing rubber boots? E>> in Moscow? K> in it Speech about bogs near Podolsk, whether that?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Stanislaw K, you wrote: SK> Just in case: 01 02 03 04 is not minibuses. After these sacral numbers a gray small square-quotation collection from below  to a state "all problems from liquids and "?

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Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Stanislaw K, you wrote: SK> in the letter domain "" suggest an idea that this professional manual on  to hatred to local authorities. Or to "Muscovites"? Or, judging by comparing with berlins-nujorkami, on  hatred at once to this country (to letters of the domain corresponds more)? The rich city presumes: More cheaply, than in London Moscow strongly retains  positions among cities with the housing and communal services most accessible to the population. And not only in Russia, but also in the world.... The size of a discount for fee of housing and communal services for various categories of exempts makes from 30 to 100 %. And in total the help from a city - in the form of grants or privileges - receive more than 4,2 million Muscovites, that is every third inhabitant of capital. And all it led to that Moscow the housing and communal services lag behind in development. To take the same trolley buses, many cities care of the transport lines. Really it is necessary to understand logic of the Moscow officials from them getting rid. As a variant, in a bakery it is possible and to reach by a taxi, guest workers and  taxi services force down the prices to impropriety. Or even so, if transport is required we overtake buses, there will be no the  adjacent regions, money is. Or to take protection from fires of the same wood, what for in it to be engaged. There are situations when huge budgets harm more likely, instead of help. Transport problems all the same should be solved somehow. To hope that when the collapse all comes it will be possible to flood money short-sighted. As to riches for a long time already it is time to get used that Moscow even on average salaries is far ahead of remaining cities. Differently the city gives privileges to the inhabitants, plus of the salary the highest. If for someone it is an occasion to hatred it easier to come in large numbers in rubber and most to start to receive preferences.