51

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, velkin, you wrote: V> the Rich city presumes: More cheaply, than in London V> V> Moscow strongly retains  positions among cities with the housing and communal services most accessible to the population. And not only in Russia, but also in the world. V>... V> the size of a discount for fee of housing and communal services for various categories of exempts makes from 30 to 100 %. And in total the help from a city - in the form of grants or privileges - receive more than 4,2 million Muscovites, that is every third inhabitant of capital. V> and all it led to that Moscow the housing and communal services lag behind in development. I do not see communication. What exactly led to lag? What the part of money pays not a customer of housing and communal services, and a certain third party? The executor of housing and communal services all the same receives the of 100 %. Or what on rather small ground densely there live many people, and thus expenditures on all trunks share on  number of customers - the content of trunks on everyone personally more cheaply than if all lived in low ? And in what lag expresses? In fan switch-offs of an electricity? To heat short shipment?  waste waters? V> to take the same trolley buses, many cities care of the transport lines. Really it is necessary to understand logic of the Moscow officials from them getting rid. As a variant, in a bakery it is possible and to reach by a taxi, guest workers and  taxi services force down the prices to impropriety. A taxi [personally for me] an inconvenient type of transport. To a trip alone - it is expensive. Waiting long. In corks to stand boringly. V> there are situations when huge budgets harm more likely, instead of help. Transport problems all the same should be solved somehow. To hope for that when the collapse all comes it will be possible to flood money short-sighted. Undoubtedly.

52

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Stanislaw K, you wrote: V>> And all it led to that Moscow the housing and communal services lag behind in development. SK> and in what lag expresses? In fan switch-offs of an electricity? To heat short shipment?  waste waters? Do not check, but automatics though also expensive, but allows to save essentially. When budgets ,  the full pockets, yes the city still pays for you to save simply there is no sense. There is no sense to save, there is no sense to lead technical re-equipment according to the modern conditions. In it lag though clear business is not ubiquitous also expresses. Basically it concerns all, for example, what for to struggle with heat losses if for it all the same pays a city. Did not warm a heating main, burned superfluous gas, and to spit. As a result all it expresses in power losses. On the other hand, and what to wait from mother country of the country of a gaz station. Besides it is not necessary to think that in Moscow all so is absolutely bad, it only on the average lags behind on re-equipment a part of much poorer cities of Russia. But it, as to heat. About an electricity it is not enough that I know from talks, in the core from the Internet. But here for example: the Power interruption in Moscow (2005) Technogenic failure from which, on some counts, suffered about 2 million persons... Substation "" constructed in 1964, is equipped by six step-down autotransformers.... In Moscow very difficult topology of electrical circuits. It is unique region in which since the USSR did not appear  (special automatics of switch-off of loading). The raised vulnerability of the Moscow electric system played an important role in an event. In Moscow very much like to exploit the ancient equipment though the city spends much more money for one inhabitant. And sloppiness proceeds and to this day.

53

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, velkin, you wrote: V>>> And all it led to that Moscow the housing and communal services lag behind in development. SK>> and in what lag expresses? In fan switch-offs of an electricity? To heat short shipment?  waste waters? V> do not check, but automatics though also expensive, but allows to save essentially. When budgets ,  the full pockets, yes the city still pays for you to save simply there is no sense. There is no sense to save, there is no sense to lead technical re-equipment according to the modern conditions. The impression is added that at whom that obsession to "save". V> As a result all it expresses in power losses. You suppose, if I now ungear a superfluous bulb, the generator starts to burn less gas? V> but it, as to heat. About an electricity it is not enough that I know from talks, in the core from the Internet. But here for example: V> the Power interruption in Moscow (2005 V> V> Technogenic failure from which, on some counts, suffered about 2 million persons V>... Yes take above. 150 million suffered from this failure as operation of Russian segment of the Internet and telecommunication was broke. V> in Moscow very much like to exploit the ancient equipment though the city spends much more money for one inhabitant. And sloppiness proceeds both to this day. And all over you can result examples of cities, not Moscow where at appearance of new power saving up technology, replace at once all appropriate engineering systems?

54

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Stanislaw K, you wrote: V>> As a result all it expresses in power losses. SK> you suppose, if I now ungear a superfluous bulb, the generator starts to burn less gas? And here gas and an electricity, gas in the core heat. Is, of course, and combined variants, but it absolutely other case. I so suppose if to lose 50 % of heat, but to compensate it burning of 200 % of fuel, and then to show the account for hot water and heating twice more it hardly is necessary to townsmen to taste. And here if for all losses pays a city then anybody and will not do anything. And it first of all tenants with whom all will suit, they not begin to write application, and those who controls this economy not begin to improve anything.

55

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, the Laid-back person, you wrote: By the way, an example of consequences of worthless architecture of the project of the underground from the Soviet designers. Here that hindered metro station where they rather near to , to construct absolutely near to it that now it was possible to organize fast passages, instead of for 10-20 minutes on foot to stamp. Vojkovsky, for example. To foresee it is more than on fifty years far not to everyone it is given.

56

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Micht, you wrote: M> Once again (last) - people, profile experts, took and counted the general expenses for a bus line and for the trolleybus. With the registration of purchase of a rolling stock, the equipment of park, the content of all this good, training of certain experts, and all other. The trolley bus is cheaper. And risen in corks because of a wire breakage the disctrict of the city and the costs connected to it considered?

57

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, velkin, you wrote: V>>> As a result all it expresses in power losses. SK>> you suppose, if I now ungear a superfluous bulb, the generator starts to burn less gas? V> And here gas and an electricity, gas in the core heat. Is, of course, and combined variants, but it absolutely other case. I so suppose,  I do not argue with the TV set.

58

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, karbofos42, you wrote: E>> Generally all sense  - to discharge the underground at center from the transit traffic. K> so the underground that  - one essence. Could take ready checked up  compositions and not to produce entities, after all it would be cheaper (more cheaply to develop buses and to hammer on trolley buses). Could not. The sense is not present. At  coaches a track standard and here a contact network of incompatible system. Or for money coaches  to alter on pantographs and appropriate pressure, or for the big money a line to do the double standard. Both a current-carrying wire to pull and a contact third rail. And then for money to hold service that each time on way sections to de-energize not necessary and to submit a current in necessary, depending on what composition. And routine maintenance of a difficult contact network twice more money spends.  cheap standard serial electric trains was general-purpose it is cheaply interchangeable with suburban trains. At what it is possible in rent, if something happens, swallows from  to overtake.

59

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Stanislaw K, you wrote: V>> And here gas and an electricity, gas in the core heat. Is, of course, and combined variants, but it absolutely other case. I so suppose,  SK> I do not argue with the TV set. And I do not watch TV, and I do not think that there would began about such to speak. There are acquaintances who work in the rubber. Here they just also should struggle with technological backwardness.

60

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, the Laid-back person, you wrote: By the way, an example of consequences of worthless architecture of the project of the underground from the Soviet designers. Here that hindered metro station where they rather near to , to construct absolutely near to it that now it was possible to organize fast passages, instead of for 10-20 minutes on foot to stamp. Vojkovsky, for example. Saving. It should be primary two stations, one at the Victory bridge (with convenient change on  a platform Leningrad), the second to the north of MK , with a southern output on this. Because of saving it turned out how it turned out.

61

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> Well and anyway, the main contribution to air pollution cars, instead of buses give. The more people changes from cars buses, the air becomes purer... Well, also what for this purpose becomes? Perhaps new routes? Perhaps there are more than transport units start up on the existing? Can the manager  behind congestion and add the HARDWARE in rush hours, remove at o'clock of idle time? . Cancel trolley buses. Let the people are pushed. Let drivers are retrained. Let support/lines understand. And certainly in the winter in colds it is a high time to do it. Also will speak still: the budget not rubber, does not pull all. That people really changed from personal cars - it is necessary that the public transport walked regularly and thin. So will not be, times of the USSR transited. And still there are places where never simply there is no public transport, except a taxi. And it, cars you tell pollute? It   on everyone  which? A-ja-jaj, about them spoke earlier - buy foreign cars, ours to do  are not able. Liars, whether that? Hang out at public stops - most  - cargo (which cannot be started up in a city), buses (which fill cheap ), and at all . E> It it is necessary to find and buy somewhere new such technics, import, probably, to rebuild under it parks, an infrastructure and etc. E> Nafiga it is all to do? At all the fact that it is favourable. How ? And to saw. Advantage of passengers is hyperbolical to advantage of carriers.... <<RSDN@Home 1.0.0 alpha 5 rev. 0>> SQL DE 2016

62

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF>> I often on center of Moscow go by trolley buses, when I happen in Moscow. E> if them replace with buses, something for you changes? Changes.

63

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF>> Buses - not harmless type of transport, in comparison with trolley buses or trams. E> you want to tell, what it simply religion? I want to tell that a trolley bus - a normal type of transport. RF>> (as well as a diesel locomotive not harmless type of the locomotive in comparison with an electric locomotive or . When at us in Russia electrify the railways ---------- (- Vitebsk), Obozersky - Arkhangelsk, Konosha - Kotlas - Mikun - Vorkuta, the Necklace - Nodal - Yelets, Michurinsk - Tambov - Rtishchevo, Inza - Ulyanovsk - Bugulma - Kandry, Anisovsky - Urbah - Ershov - Ozinki, Kinel - Orenburg, the Red Node - Peshelan, the Red Node - Kanash, Kostroma - Galich, Shahovsky - Rzhev, Luga - Pskov, Novolisino - Novgorod?) E> What for? That trains went in an in a civilized way way. In Switzerland of the railways of 98 % are electrified. In Russia it is necessary to electrify at least the main directions is raises speed of passage of compositions, increases throughput, makes an ecological situation better. It will be possible to start up electric trains which transport more people, than diesel engines-trains. And the number of pairs electric trains a day will be more than number of pairs diesel engines-trains or suburban trains with diesel locomotives.  the railways (at least, the main railways) - a civilization index.

64

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Ops, you wrote:> By the way, an example of consequences of worthless architecture of the project of the underground from the Soviet designers. Here that hindered metro station where they rather near to , to construct absolutely near to it that now it was possible to organize fast passages, instead of for 10-20 minutes on foot to stamp. Vojkovsky, for example. Ops> to Foresee it is more than on fifty years far not to everyone it is given. And who told, what good designing it is easy? The ring railway already was then, and even sentences on its usage for passengers too were. So it was necessary to strain and guess a few brain the underground to tighten as much as possible close to a ring, with a backlog on the future.

65

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: E>> What for? RF> That trains went in an in a civilized way way. IMHO, it simply slogan... RF> In Switzerland of the railways of 98 % are electrified. There the ends ** others... RF> In Russia it is necessary to electrify at least the main directions is raises speed of passage of compositions, increases throughput, disputably, especially about the conducting. RF> makes an ecological situation better. Near Pskov or Rzhev there are problems from exhausts of diesel locomotives? RF> it will be possible to start up electric trains which transport more people, than diesel engines-trains. And the number of pairs electric trains a day will be more than number of pairs diesel engines-trains or suburban trains with diesel locomotives. Electric trains everywhere in the Russian Federation are dated and all the same demand for them in many places the low... RF> Elektrifitsirovannost of the railways (at least, the main railways) - a civilization index. Again the slogan.

66

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> For example, the trolleybus line is more difficult for changing, if at me in a city five buses and three trolley buses manoeuvre by transport is very restricted. I strongly suspect that the decision from ONE trolley buses and the decision from ONE buses BOTH will be cheaper. Enough at last to order to any Russian car factory trolley buses with a store of an independent course at least kilometers in 5 and automatics of rise/cleaning of horns places in any abstract city simply does not remain to buses. Also the contact network can be simplified very strongly.

67

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: RF>> In Switzerland of the railways of 98 % are electrified. E> there the ends ** others... What do you mean? RF>> makes an ecological situation better. E> near Pskov or Rzhev there are problems from exhausts of diesel locomotives? To inhabitants of these cities not so. E> electric trains everywhere in the Russian Federation are dated and all the same demand for them in many places the low... Who to you told, what the low? RF>> Elektrifitsirovannost of the railways (at least, the main railways) - a civilization index. E> again the slogan. Come on a site www.200stran.tu and look there at circuits of the railways of the European countries and compare them to the circuit of the railways of Russia (is, for example, on a site www.parovoz.com).

68

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> Idiocy! When malfunction on a line these trolley buses are saved on 5-8 pieces, or  at departure of trolley buses under  with adjoining they cannot go round the bridge turning to the right because of restricted manoeuvre imho better them to remove and in the future to pass to normal electrotransport

69

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Patsak, you wrote: Type bus-marshrutochnaja the company-monopolist (de facto the monopolist, de jure there is still a couple small) belongs to the near relation of the person who is in the power and rows under itself all most favourable routes in a city. Through any time all public transport fed from these routes, dies, and the private trader owning the bus company, starts to repeat a voice of the hero of a known toy: "it is necessary more gold, it is necessary more gold..." And to receive grants for transportation from the municipal budget. Thus where really there are these grants - anybody, most likely, in any way does not check, since the point about the relative see above. And what hinders the same circuit to stir up with trolley buses?

70

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, landerhigh, you wrote: L> it is Enough to order at last to any Russian car factory trolley buses with a store of an independent course at least kilometers in 5 and automatics of rise/cleaning of horns places in any abstract city simply does not remain to buses. Also the contact network can be simplified very strongly. And for whose account will be ?

71

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> That trains went in an in a civilized way way. Make determination of driving of a train "in an in a civilized way way" and not "in an in a civilized way way". RF> In Switzerland of the railways of 98 % are electrified. RF> in Russia it is necessary to electrify at least the main directions Swisses, of course, good fellows. Whether is  the railways a principal sign of driving of trains "in an in a civilized way way". If to trust Wikipedia on relative  the railways Russia flush with Japan and concedes only to Switzerland, Poland, the republic of South Africa and Spain.

72

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

A> That people really changed from personal cars - it is necessary that the public transport walked regularly and thin. So will not be, times of the USSR transited. Thin public transport? The USSR here precisely is in vain mentioned.

73

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> That you mean? What is the straight line distance - 230 km. For comparing Rzhev-Pskov, too on a straight line of 400 km, also is all a section of that you would like  RF> to Inhabitants of these cities not so. At what here ? RF> Come on a site www.200stran.tu and look there at circuits of the railways of the European countries and compare them to the circuit of the railways of Russia (is, for example, on a site www.parovoz.com). And? By what criterion it is offered to compare? On civilization? The Russian Railway last 10 puts years in development and infrastructure upgrade much. I think that if electrification somewhere was favourable, it would lead. Electrified road to Murmansk, for example?

74

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Patsak, you wrote: that trolley buses belong to municipality, and the profit from their transportations has a city, instead of a private trader-deputy. Well it is simple so was added. The trolleybus park too could a private trader-deputy ...

75

Re: In Moscow trolley buses all?

Hello, Erop, you wrote: E> And for whose account will be ? For whose was, money remains in the country and do good both economy and ecology, plus can be made an export variant generally. Not to mention that any especial research and development there is not so necessary. All components are,  and are accessible. Do a platform and implement. It is possible even a set for  a rolling stock to make.