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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> Not about that speech. \ not that, and at some instant your experience is necessary to nobody also you become on one step with students in respect of competitiveness. About learnability and brains you in vain. Look at scientists and doctors - there everything is all right with learnability and brains of years to 70 minimum.

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> Hello, aloch, you wrote: A>> And without any AI already  sites "Made robots for robots" S> Where the such? On the Internet.

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> I also asked a question on purpose to understand, instead of whether there are developers, and their big part, behind a progress board? Hindus - remain, for it is so much stupid persons-knopkodavov to us precisely it is not necessary. Russian engineers will suffice for any salary. But not at once - only when "tops" reaches that the further impairment of a product  does not climb in any criteria. Programming for a long time already compared already to three incorporated spheres: art, craft and a science. All together they well are not emulated in any way "".

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> It would be desirable to know judgement of the public who that suspects this account. Revolution in our craft like the Internet approaches or a bubble inflate? Certainly it is revolution. 21 the century will be a century will be a century of biology and AI. Which turn all. Funny that till now many did not understand it. Well it is good

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

S> It would be desirable to know judgement of the public who that suspects this account. Revolution in our craft like the Internet approaches or a bubble inflate? No revolution is present, there is more likely an evolution. And that is why. 1. There is no clear boundary between concepts "is used ml" and "is not used ml". These concepts very conditional. If we in the course of data handling counted an arithmetic average is already ml or still are not present? And if used the least-squares method? And if constructed the bayesian qualifier? And if constructed a decision tree? And if trained ? Etc., etc. 2. Would be too naive to think that if we in the program apply  data handling methods at the expense of it all competitors we win. The success depends on mass of other factors - who better the goods  who succeeded in lobbying who organized support, etc. more effectively more And to the mathematician the nobility it is useful for any programmer that earlier that now - even if it in an explicit form in the software does not apply it, the positive effect from prorolling of brains will be.

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, klopodav, you wrote: S>> It would be desirable to know judgement of the public who that suspects this account. Revolution in our craft like the Internet approaches or a bubble inflate? K> no revolution is present, there is more likely an evolution. K> and that is why. K> 1. There is no clear boundary between concepts "is used ml" and "is not used ml". These concepts very conditional. K> if we in the course of data handling counted an arithmetic average is already ml or still are not present? And if used the least-squares method? And if constructed the bayesian qualifier? And if constructed a decision tree? And if trained ? Etc., etc. Here since the moment trained  it is possible to tell that "we use ml". K> 2. Would be too naive to think that if we in the program apply  data handling methods at the expense of it all competitors we win. The success depends on mass of other factors - who better the goods  who succeeded in lobbying who organized support, etc. Not about it speech more effectively more. Whether here we admit the first programmers of 60th years could present in what all it pours out. Such trade as the programmer at all was not. As and here, after a while the kind of activity absolutely exchanges for the majority of programmers - from  in source codes and debuggers to training and adjustment .

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

K>> 1. There is no clear boundary between concepts "is used ml" and "is not used ml". These concepts very conditional. K>> if we in the course of data handling counted an arithmetic average is already ml or still are not present? And if used the least-squares method? And if constructed the bayesian qualifier? And if constructed a decision tree? And if S> trained ? Etc., etc. S> Here since the moment trained  it is possible to tell that "we use ml". This boundary not "natural", but led by the "forcible" decision. Other people lead it in another way - in this respect dispersion of judgements enough big. Besides, there is a question - from what reasons the boundary was led so? For example, if it is comparable on the one hand the decision trees strengthened by any algorithm of type  so they solve the task with good accuracy, and on the other hand unpretentious   which solves the task with mediocre accuracy - why one carried to ml, another not to ml? K>> 2. Would be too naive to think that if we in the program apply  data handling methods at the expense of it all competitors we win. The success depends on mass of other factors - who better the goods  who succeeded in lobbying who organized support, etc. S> Not about it speech more effectively more. Whether here we admit the first programmers of 60th years could present in what all it pours out. Such trade as the programmer at all was not. As and here, after a while the kind of activity absolutely exchanges for the majority of programmers - from  in source codes and debuggers to training and adjustment . There is such suspicion that anything in essence does not exchange - there will be the same  in source codes, only in source codes there will be calls  algorithms, and  at configs, only configs will concern adjustment .

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> Not about it speech. Whether here we admit the first programmers of 60th years could present in what all it pours out. Such trade as the programmer at all was not. As and here, after a while the kind of activity absolutely exchanges for the majority of programmers - from  in source codes and debuggers to training and adjustment . So how many years transited? Such that your experience is not so necessary tomorrow, was not, all changed to human measures slowly enough. Any  till now did not die final though the first programmers on it in the majority or died, or absolutely old men.

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Ops, you wrote: Ops> Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S>> Not about it speech. Whether here we admit the first programmers of 60th years could present in what all it pours out. Such trade as the programmer at all was not. As and here, after a while the kind of activity absolutely exchanges for the majority of programmers - from  in source codes and debuggers to training and adjustment . Ops> So how many years transited? Such that your experience is not so necessary tomorrow, was not, all changed to human measures slowly enough. Any  till now did not die final though the first programmers on it in the majority or died, or absolutely old men. Pay here attention to pictures about horses and machines right at the beginning. Considering that in  all happens even faster...

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> pay here attention to pictures about horses and machines right at the beginning. Considering that in  all happens even faster... Horses, machines... And people at the wheel not the same, casually?

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Ops, you wrote: Ops> Hello, Sharov, you wrote: Ops> Horses, machines... And people at the wheel not the same, casually? Validly, the same. And skills of "driving" of a horse for driving by it strongly are necessary now? These  generally were somehow intersected?

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> it is valid, the same. And skills of "driving" of a horse for driving by it strongly are necessary now? These  generally were somehow intersected? Well and what it changes? While there is no machine, you all the same will not receive skills.

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Ops, you wrote: Ops> Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S>> But then there will be 2 seconds and tramples on an exhibitor. You look also a muzzle to basis to learn to do. Ops> only time of fastening of AI to the task too tramples on an exhibitor. Why suddenly?

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Re: The whole world on "they" and "we" was divided.

Hello, Sharov, you wrote: S> I will not stop on that moment that average  strong enough engineer in itself. Speech not about it. Simply about 5-10 years ago all programmers were intersected on the same skills - in the core this knowledge and ability to apply algorithms, asymptotics, patterns-figatterny and here it here all. I.e. without dependence from the company people spoke in one language. At  this language owing to specificity of operation was richer. Now, perhaps, there is a passage from kol-va to quality - one part of programmers as a matter of fact will not think any more in categories alg, patterns and here it here everything, and will think in categories of adjustments of all  and the other adjacent. I.e. other skills, other toolkit. While the great bulk of developers as  remains with the same out-of-date productive forces. Adjustment  is operation of the operator as a matter of fact (the general qualification below programmers is required some knowledge in data domain, but).  and an other hogwash it is the same algorithms from adjacent section of mathematics. Certainly to the person studying to the mathematician in high school, does not make work any especially to understand with one algorithm - creation  (that there the author implies it - , Kohonena or still something). Also will ask then on interview in  it is admissible not map/reduce, and other algorithm - an essence does not change it.