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Topic: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

(This continuation the previous subject )

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

The author of video like as suggested to knock down questions in comments to video? Perhaps, I will ask it remote shell. About the price someone already asked - the question is left without the answer.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

vss
What another? There unless it was said, what distribution kit  formed at the expense of own means?
Most likely, there was an order on  for any state organizations,  is completed,  is (according to that ), now it deliver complete with computers to different buyers. Under different orders  it is finished.
In the same place it has been told that composition OPO is defined by needs of users - naturally, those users which in a state to finance operation. Well and possibilities it to master.

Simply fact of the publication of given video creates a certain dissonance how you presented a situation. For, if both a software and iron it is created during  the state also all results  should belong to the state was which customer. And as a matter of fact such rollers can act in film or corresponding . The structures disposing of results , or under their order. Anyway iron upgrade, or finishing of software  can fulfill only with the consent of specified . Structures. A situation certainly tangled enough. On the one hand  can advertize itself as the qualified developer who has created given products, but products that do not belong to it.
However a situation typical enough for our country. At us it is full of the enterprises which can create and create a decent product. But it is necessary to gain it for the state money. The strange situation when the product is created by them (and other companies cannot develop this product at the same level) turns out, but the product does not belong to them.
But, if to leave business formalities all the same a series of videoclips makes the strange impression. On the one hand authors like as want to show the received achievements. But they do it so, and say occasionally such things that such impression is made that they want, that "stupid" customers got rid of them and left alone.
In a roller about iron the commentator that hardly hardly  to itself under a nose. It is necessary to listen attentively that he there whispered once again.
In a roller about a software a companion, seemingly, too ate not enough porridge. It is removed so that nothing can be disassembled. That a little that can explain is shown.
And that he speaks.:eek:
Say tests are senseless, all not to please (therefore generally anything we will not do), can sometime (when the cancer on a grief whistles) they make tests. Buy our pig in a poke for not clearly what money.
With support of a software in an actual state too, alas, a typical position. At at us  on all does not suffice, but anything we give to nobody, "you are better do not get to anybody".
In general all is turbid somehow. At what it is not clear, whether it is such conscious position, whether they cannot simply show something in its best light.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

(google.111481867611667996988) Alexey Mandrykin
About the price someone already asked - the question is left without the answer.
It is no wonder

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

From comments to video, the next period of appearance -8
> There is any information on Elbrus-8S? Interests when goes to a series. Whether there will be declared 1.2 Hz or can above or less?
Maxim Gorshenin: will be and 1,2 and 1,3 GHz, a series - second half 2017

How there it will be coordinated with the tender of the Ministry of Internal Affairs?

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

Merblud :
If both a software and iron it is created during  the state also all results  should belong to the state was which customer. And as a matter of fact such rollers can act in film or corresponding . The structures disposing of results , or under their order. Anyway iron upgrade, or finishing of software  can fulfill only with the consent of specified . Structures. A situation certainly tangled enough. On the one hand  can advertize itself as the qualified developer who has created given products, but products that do not belong to it.
However a situation typical enough for our country. At us it is full of the enterprises which can create and create a decent product. But it is necessary to gain it for the state money. The strange situation when the product is created by them (and other companies cannot develop this product at the same level) turns out, but the product does not belong to them.

the state can allow to use a product of the organization belonging to it, this product created. Or to other organizations. To give the license. Such situation should not cause questions.
Question on upgrade and finishing (that is, modification of the stated program and designer documentation). It can be carried out within the limits of the following ordered  or creating under the initiative a new product on the basis of the old. But one business to collect the new computer, changing in it a complete set from ready cells, another - to accompany parallely some versions . Because changes are imported permanently, and for many versions many people are required. It is an example of complexity and labor input of creation of software solutions. Here it is necessary to think how to minimize efforts, to cope with the task.
For example, time of sanity check  for all types of computers for which it is intended (is officially stated), it can appear more than time of modification of type of the machine (replaced any cell of the peripheral equipment). At least because supplier  during each moment of time does not have all types of machines on which it  worked, that is it is necessary to organize tests there where these machines are - and there in that there is no interest.
Adding from 12/1/2016 21:24:

Merblud :
Whether they cannot simply show something in its best light.

to show something in its best light is a serious occupation by which it is necessary to be able to do and for which it is necessary to spend forces and means.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

Meanwhile on a site "Milandra" there was an interesting message on the inference of the contract with  about creation of basic chair. The chair "Microprocessor technologies in intellectual controlling systems" is fixed to "Milandrom" and that is interesting to this forum subject, is created by chair rearrangement "Microprocessor technologies", supervised by joint-stock company "Intel A/O" and headed since 1996 ... B.A.Babayan.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

Meanwhile at :

Maxim Gorshenin
The processor supports Elbrus-4S h86-32 and h86-64, already works  both 7 and appropriate server, remaining in process

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

Why Russia which in the past Soviet Union, is no time with the advanced scientific knowledge, till now not that that cannot make a competition to the foreign companies, and at all at all have no worthy development?

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

[off] B4rb4ru5
Why Russia which in the past Soviet Union, is no time with the advanced scientific knowledge , till now not that that cannot make a competition to the foreign companies, and at all at all have no worthy development?
At first, selected incorrectly
Secondly, the policy here is forbidden [/off]

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

Razboynik
The Processor supports Elbrus-4S h86-32 and h86-64
This strangest statement (about support from the side the processor ).
Supports the compiler as us learned before .
And an emulation software (analog ).
And that is necessary about the remaining processors working in virtual machines under emulators of different OS, to write that they "support different OS":laugh:

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

Boris Usievich
And here a policy, easier question.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

B4rb4ru5
[off] thus that the answer to your question will be inevitable about a policy [/off]

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

matik :
Razboynik
The Processor supports Elbrus-4S h86-32 and h86-64
This strangest statement (about support from the side the processor ).
Supports the compiler as us learned before .
And an emulation software (analog ).
And that is necessary about the remaining processors working in virtual machines under emulators of different OS, to write that they "support different OS":laugh:

In the processor Elbrus-4S is hardware support of binary compilation of the codes h86-32 and h86-64.
But there is no hardware support of virtual machines. (Virtual machines are made, but paravirtualization technics, only for, modified for this purpose, OS.)
And in other processors happens on the contrary.
Adding from 12/5/2016 18:26:

B4rb4ru5 :
Why Russia which in the past Soviet Union, is no time with the advanced scientific knowledge, till now not that that cannot make a competition to the foreign companies, and at all at all have no worthy development?

In the field of development of microprocessors commercial successes - are faster an exception, than a rule, therefore a question it is necessary to set about why at someone something turned out, instead of about why someone did not become the leader of the market.
The key moment here is software cost. The one to whom is possible to the first to win critical mass of users, gets of advantage of a natural monopolist, and to catch up such very difficultly.
The advanced scientific knowledge is, of course, necessary, but the correct estimation of by what what time of quality level the product will be necessary for customers, and ability to inform advantages of the product to potential buyers is necessary also. And also ability to tear mass production in the demanded volume.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

matik
This strangest statement (about support from the processor).
Supports the compiler as us learned before .

That the dynamic translator supports now translation of commands x86-64 and that Win7 already works on 4 meant.
As to hardware support for compatibility with architecture x86 it in some volume is available for Elbruses.
3.1.3. Binary compatibility with Intel 86
The standard means of architecture providing compatibility, include following components:
Set of operations of integer arithmetics, compatible with x86;
Set of 80-digit real operations, compatible with x87, with appropriate controlling both status registers and system of interruptions;
80-digit register file;
Set of integer operations, compatible to commands for handling of multimedia data MMX (Multi Media Extension);
Set 32/64- scalar and real operations, compatible to appropriate controlling both status registers and system of interruptions.
The means which have been included in the first group, are essential base for reliable and productive work of system of binary translation
Also are used by all its components. The special means of architecture providing both compatibility, and productivity:
Specialized dial-up of arithmetical operations for framing of flags 86;
The second, compatible to a platform x86, the virtual space:
Set of segment registers for calls in storage;
Set of operations of reversal in the storage, using segment registers and the second virtual space;
The mechanism of tracking "unexpected" modifications of storage;
The mechanism of protection (concealment) of area of the storage occupied with binary-broadcasting system;
Set of global registers;
Simulation of a stack of registers x87 (coprocessor) - relative addressing, interruptions on significance bits;
Operations of handling of flags of real arithmetics;
The specialized controlling register modifying modes and algorithms of execution of operations;
Specialized cache memory of addresses of the storage, supervising correctness  the binary translator at speculative performance of commands of reading before records to unknown addresses;
Operations and the registers of the status intended for effective implementation of test points;
Specialized cache memory of tables;
Specialized means of "coloring" of executable code (bits in title of a wide command);
The mechanism of the postponed interruptions.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

vss :

matik :
Razboynik
The Processor supports Elbrus-4S h86-32 and h86-64
This strangest statement (about support from the side the processor ).
Supports the compiler as us learned before .
And an emulation software (analog ).
And that is necessary about the remaining processors working in virtual machines under emulators of different OS, to write that they "support different OS":laugh:

In the processor Elbrus-4S is hardware support of binary compilation of the codes h86-32 and h86-64.
But there is no hardware support of virtual machines. (Virtual machines are made, but paravirtualization technics, only for, modified for this purpose, OS.)
And in other processors happens on the contrary.
Adding from 12/5/2016 18:26:

B4rb4ru5 :
Why Russia which in the past Soviet Union, is no time with the advanced scientific knowledge, till now not that that cannot make a competition to the foreign companies, and at all at all have no worthy development?

In the field of development of microprocessors commercial successes - are faster an exception, than a rule, therefore a question it is necessary to set about why at someone something turned out, instead of about why someone did not become the leader of the market.
The key moment here is software cost. The one to whom is possible to the first to win critical mass of users, gets of advantage of a natural monopolist, and to catch up such very difficultly.
The advanced scientific knowledge is, of course, necessary, but the correct estimation of by what what time of quality level the product will be necessary for customers, and ability to inform advantages of the product to potential buyers is necessary also. And also ability to tear mass production in the demanded volume.

I in the sense that Russian manual, as a rule, am able to focus resources on the decision of essential tasks, let and to the detriment of needs of civilians. Why they how it normally happens, did not select  and did not squeeze out of them processor variations of Iskander and -400? Or designing of the microprocessor demands the full creative freedom and is possible only on inspiration, by the way, in garage?

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

B4rb4ru5 :
Or designing of the microprocessor demands the full creative freedom and is possible only on inspiration, by the way, in garage?

In garage the microprocessor, and the personal computer - consumer goods was developed not.
To the state to order consumer goods somehow it is inappropriate.
Well and the state orders development of microprocessors in coordination with developers, it and is the form of the registration of inspiration. But creative freedom is restricted by financing volume.
Adding from 12/6/2016 10:36:

B4rb4ru5 :
Why they as it normally happens... Also did not squeeze out of them processor variations of Iskander and -400?

Perhaps, and it is made, and these systems are completed with processors of the Russian development?

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

vss
I likely badly formulated. I mean, why the government did not prosecute this subjects independently, after all the question concerns safety in country scales, besides it is financially perspective. Do not ask, whence this information, but for example, the government paid attention to machine intelligence development, and they did not address in institutes, and launched the project replika.ai, for the purpose of search of talented researchers. Why they did not make in due time the same with ?

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

B4rb4ru5
The government paid attention to machine intelligence development, and they did not address in institutes, and launched the project replika.ai
Forgive, and the government of what country you means, telling about an ordinary chatbot-startup from a silicon valley in the USA?

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

(facebook.1486783941) Valeriy Shunkov :
B4rb4ru5
The government paid attention to machine intelligence development, and they did not address in institutes, and launched the project replika.ai
Forgive, and the government of what country you means, telling about an ordinary chatbot-startup from a silicon valley in the USA?

It is the Russian project

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

Razboynik
That the dynamic translator supports now translation of commands x86-64 and that Win7 already works on 4 Meant.
Type between promising and performing, a man can marry his daughter?
smile
However, on me - - all these compatibility modes - - superfluous.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

B4rb4ru5
It is the Russian project
I correctly understand, what you now state, what the Russian government as development of systems of machine intelligence in Russia financed departure of the Russian developers in the USA for creation of a remarkable chatbot-startup by 1228 nothing, moreover and a site not having to the Russian-speaking version (not to mention a huge inscription "with support of the government of the Russian Federation" on principal page)?
For such it is possible and to sit down in prison.
And, well and yes, here Rosnano finances here this office: http://www.softmachines.com/
About the same it turns out that with your remark.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

(facebook.1486783941) Valeriy Shunkov :
B4rb4ru5
It is the Russian project
I correctly understand

Was not present. They collect  about those who anyhow prosecutes AI subjects.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

B4rb4ru5 :
I in the sense that Russian manual, as a rule, am able to focus resources on the decision of essential tasks, let and to the detriment of needs of civilians. Why they how it normally happens, did not select  and did not squeeze out of them processor variations of Iskander and -400? Or designing of the microprocessor demands the full creative freedom and is possible only on inspiration, by the way, in garage?

And than you does not arrange Elbrus as a processor variation of Iskander and -400, Iskander and -400 it on the technological level of system far not advanced and cheap, with the concept and element basis 10-20 summer prescription, but powerful enough for parrying of threats of more developed armies.
Elbrus, it also the cheap decision which at minimum expenses provides necessary needs, and at due level of implementation is possible and in a state to compete to the modern development.

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Re: Domestic microprocessors (2) (a part 8)

milaro222
Elbrus, it also the cheap decision
Very ridiculous joke