1 Topic by The planter

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Topic: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Well all of us it is known that "c" is a sediment and there do Mercedes and pineapples together with  grow. And in Russia a swede and autovases and processors Elbrus.
Well, actually not so all is simple.  it there were at first, countries in a good climate, with ocean communications instead of Volga and , with more numerous population, moreover and are historically industrially more developed.
That is it is clear that if fattened  (the USA + England + France + Canada + colonies...) beats the thin hungry fellow which else besides spends 50 % of incomes for protection against rolling (USSR), it is as though predetermined smile
And here if to present 2 planets, with the identical climate, identical natural resources, to fly on one with another it is impossible, on one - a socialism (let not such military man as in the USSR, is faster than the East European sense), on other capitalism let the sample of the western beginning of the XX-th century.
Where as a result people will live better and more happily?:D

2 Reply by Merblud

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

The Planter
Problem in that at everyone the scale of values influencing representation about "better and happier".
Sometimes someone perceives the same fact positively, and someone is negative.
The idea with two planets is good, perhaps, that under condition of a possible choice, where to lodge, one would not hinder to live another. Well at least there would be such potential possibility.

3 Reply by FUKS

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

4 Reply by Gmp

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

The Planter
Where as a result people will live better and more happily?
There where there is no planned economy.:p

5 Reply by FUKS

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Merblud
Under condition of a possible choice where to lodge, one would not hinder to live another. Well at least there would be such potential possibility.
That's it, potential. And "" these one would depart on other planet not there to live, and to alter the local order on the, i.e. all as well as on one planet. It is dissatisfied with life HERE, you get over THERE and soon you become dissatisfied with something else, the melancholy in a former place, understanding begins that the ideal order is not present either THERE, or HERE, here and there is a desire all a pen [groin]  in own way.

6 Reply by The planter

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

For example, Canada

Canada is the low brother of the USA, uses all blessings of the senior, and there all is mixed. Canada should not hold 50 % of economy on  that "developed world" to constrain. smile

7 Reply by The planter

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

But appearance of MiG-15 with engines Rolls-Royce

The capitalist sells native mother for profit. smile
Certainly, there are renegades and other turncoats, for the sake of a profit cooperating with the enemy. smile

8 Reply by Fracta1L

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Without economic freedom no prosperity can be.

9 Reply by The planter

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Without economic freedom no prosperity can be

In the USSR there was, by the way, a project to transfer the State Planning Committee on the numeral machine. smile Already in 60th years understood that manual planning by ALL within the limits of the country - is is ineffective. smile
Decisions on that where, how many, what factories to construct, what researches to pay from the budget the machine would accept. smile
The philanthropic machine, for example, could fill up citizens  and pineapples.
In a reality it was necessary to hold millions healthy muzhiks in tanks and with automatic machines on the Western boundary, and tens more millions that it riveted this weapon. And at this time   dug in collective farms because all have been occupied in . smile

10 Reply by The planter

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

It seems that "the socialism with a human face" without AI is impossible. smile
Too rigid system.
It is necessary to invent AI and to invent, we entrust it planning of manufacture and allocation of the blessings that it did not start to soil. Instead of socks, for example, to produce shoe-polish, in astronomical , for entertainment. smile
Adding from 8/23/2017 16:16:

By the way, how many the USA spend for support of Canada?

How many at Canada atomic submarines and military bases?
Here and supports. smile

11 Reply by Vladimir Scherbak

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

The Planter
The socialism does not have internal motive power of development which in capitalism the competition is. It is clear?

12 Reply by The planter

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Which in capitalism the competition

Yes a horse-radish about two is. smile
For example manufacture of ammonia from air nitrogen was crucial for Germany (the Chilean saltpeter behind oceans), here and financed Gabera. Instead of to compete to vendors of urea from the cow urine. smile
Then still the German government to it selected the ship, that learned to extract gold from sea water. But, did not grow together. sad
Microwave invented, that astronauts ate hot food instead of to compete to vendors of gas furnaces
Computers invented, not that sleepyheads with  competed, and for calculation of flight of ballistic missiles.
Somehow so.:D
Adding from 8/23/2017 16:26:
Even artificial diamonds invented quickly to sharpen any Difficult details from High-strength steels in the Big Scales. For any bad features, like tank guns and  an armored troop-carrier smile
Instead of to compete in the field of costume jewellery to getters . smile

13 Reply by Vladimir Scherbak

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

The Planter
Yes a horse-radish about two.
Means, not clearly. To you about Fomu, you - about Eremu...
But level of your formation, unfortunately, leaves much to be desired. Here you also rush about between Antarctica and a socialism, plainly without understanding neither in that, nor in other.
Somehow so wink.

14 Reply by Vladimir Scherbak

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

 
About a competition (and not only about it) at the dude own concepts which differ radically from what are used by competent people.
And if to ask about the market, he starts to tell about a market:rotate:.

15 Reply by FUKS

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Fracta1L
Without economic freedom no prosperity can be.
Does not happen neither freedom for everything, nor freedom at anybody. Freedom always at a part of the population which prospers and to some extent helps to prosper all (or not all). And here one rest that it is necessary to give freedom as more as possible to everything, and will be all happiness, and others object that all cooks spoil all, and it is necessary to restrict distribution of freedom by a small group of professionals so they of more happiness remaining bring. The third tell something else, but attentions do not pay to them neither those, nor others.
As a matter of fact "a victory of communistic revolution in the world scale".
Utopia. For all everything should build happiness, differently does not quit. But people for some reason piously believe (to not clearly whom) that with it the authorities for those taxes which remove from them should provide good worthy life that the authorities should guess to whom that on customs and to everyone personally to please, sweep with it a floor in apartment and to pay in addition for anxiety, and people suit the life on the  do not want for any gingerbreads, consider it shameful. Well and to the authorities such deal only on a hand, they also are not torn to overpersuade people and to promote their significance in this game, to help to build the happiness, supply canonized business lot substitute.
The Planter
It seems that "the socialism with a human face" without AI is impossible.
It without  is impossible, without a human face. And from AI it with the IICHESKY person and not only is possible, but also is, people are packed into the Matrix, laid down on the Pipeline and declared by the happy. However, to people are similar ever less.

16 Reply by The planter

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Yes, and Canada.

Canada a pancake. Still Sweden recall. smile
The capitalist unit at the moment of disorder of the USSR: the USA, Canada, Mexico, almost all South America, Israel, the Arabian countries (ALL are fastened for petrodollar), J.Koreja, Japan, Australia, N.Zelandija, Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, the republic of South Africa, 2/3 Africa (raw colonies), Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Austria, Turkey, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Israel.
The Soviet unit: the USSR, Poland, Czechoslovakia, GDR, Bulgaria-Romania, Cuba, Venezuela, para-triple of countries in Africa, clients in the Near East which two uterus suck, Vietnam (there-here). Everything, arrived.
China, Iran - in itself, canny. smile

17 Reply by Rarictolus

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

The Planter
The main problem of the USSR was that the power did not think at all of the population. Still to it to think, if existence of the current power did not depend in any way on approval by its population. There were no choices, there was no material not certificated by the authorities in newspapers and on TV, all protests were rigidly cut off. It is not pleasant to get footwear, clothes, TV sets, cars standing in enormous queues, on the big protection or with a huge overpayment for Second-hand (the unique phenomenon!)? Yours, and only your problems.
But it is interesting to look at a socialism with a planned economy in the conditions of publicity and struggle of the mighty of this world for the places on re-elections.
Adding from 8/23/2017 20:15:
Vladimir Scherbak

The socialism does not have internal motive power of development which in capitalism the competition is. It is clear?

! National choices in Committee of State planning towards the end of each five-years period. Was ineffectively arranged the blessings? From Committee.

18 Reply by AMD Fanatic

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Rarictolus
Was ineffectively arranged the blessings?
Available blessings to arrange is only a problem part. It is necessary still to be able to invent and implement new and to improve the old. In the competitive environment it is natural process, and in planned - there will be an exhaustion from a finger or peeping at a telescope at "a capitalist planet":laugh:

19 Reply by Rarictolus

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

AMD Fanatic

Available blessings to arrange is only a problem part. It is necessary still to be able to invent and implement new and to improve the old. In the competitive environment it is natural process, and in planned - there will be an exhaustion from a finger or peeping at a telescope at "a capitalist planet"

Did not invent anything interesting? Competitors invent it for you, and bypass thanks to it on choices.
However, capitalism incomparably is more effective similar "competitive" . Schedulings. I think, from capitalism the Western world passes at once to communism, with printers for all and Open Source Hardware.

20 Reply by Sergey

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Capitalism basically cannot exist without plundering whom or. Capitalism - economy deeply unprofitable and existing only for the account  in other countries.
The socialism if will not launch in space , quite to itself feeds the people at 10 hour working week

21 Reply by FUKS

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

22 Reply by Rarictolus

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

Sergey 
Capitalism is a maintenance by the people of for the purpose of earning money on sale to itself of the increasing and big blessings. Capitalism cannot exist without a social inequality, but with development of automation of manufactures more and more comes nearer to communism.
The socialism suggests people not to exploit generally anybody, and was technically implementable already in the thirties. But without an absolute transparency of institutes of planning, and also powerful competitive struggle in their walls, . The plan will not work.
Adding from 8/23/2017 21:29:
FUKS

Tju! And the logic of determination of efficiency not linear, and is not enough five-years period, to please to short term to plan - only to disorganize all system and as a result all the same to itself roots to cut.

Classical problem of the selected power. She dares simply - candidates should represent not only, but also a batch which is favourable be not to losing national sympathies throughout as much as possible long period.
that batches was, at least, two, and they really competed among themselves.

"And you speak" (from a joke). Candidates can bypass on choices of operating schedulers only for the account of promises, and can promise and operating. The classics actually turns out: I vote for candidate Sidorov because it yet did not steal/deceived/, etc.

It is the most favourable to promise, be selected and anything from promised not to fulfill. But in the conditions of the competitive policy it gives up as a bad job your political career, and also does seriously much harm to those forces which helped you to be selected (batches).

23 Reply by FUKS

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

24 Reply by Rarictolus

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

FUKS
In States only two batches (significant) with a uniform secret apex, but these does not hinder them extremely rigidly to compete for minds and hearts of people.
High ranks "" the posts through dialogue with the finite voter, a gain of its sympathies all possible means.
And this system actually works. In States to live better, than in any country of the won authoritarianism.
Naturally, representative democracy is not faultless, but it is more preferable than dictatorship.

25 Reply by Gmp

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Re: Insulated Socialism and insulated Capitalism. Without the cold war, everyone on the planet. Who whom wins on a population standard of living?

FUKS
Because the electorate does not want and is not capable to understand subtleties of offered ways
In Switzerland the system of referenda therefore live better than Germans at whom the small group of morons invents perfectly works that wants and as it is favourable it.