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Topic: Alternatives to capitalism

Dear colleagues how you think what alternatives to capitalism can exist? Well that is what alternatives to a social and economic system at which banks which parasitize on usury have the real power can exist? Capitalism is not the economic power of businessmen, and the economic power of banks, at which businessmen same exploited, as well as hired workers. The real exploiter under capitalism - not the businessman, and the banker.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> Dear colleagues how you think what alternatives to capitalism can exist? RF> well that is what alternatives to a social and economic system at which banks which parasitize on usury have the real power can exist? Capitalism is not the economic power of businessmen, and the economic power of banks, at which businessmen same exploited, as well as hired workers. The real exploiter under capitalism - not the businessman, and the banker. And if the person carries on business, has no credits, uses bank only for cashing in of money (the salary etc.) as the bank "exploits"?

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> the Real exploiter under capitalism - not the businessman, and the banker. It is necessary to begin with determinations. What is the maintenance?

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, Socrat, you wrote: S> it is necessary to Begin with determinations. What is the maintenance? Assignment of work of other people.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> Dear colleagues how you think what alternatives to capitalism can exist? To capitalism - as to the world of the free driving of capitals (there where in them the big need), effective alternatives cannot be. To capitalism - as to the world of maintenance of one people others with unfair reallocation of incomes, effective alternatives are possible. A socialism - real alternative. Accordingly at a socialism more effective market of the capital and the goods, above a competition and much more valid allocation of incomes. If who with it does not agree that it explicitly not a socialist and not the communist, Lenin such "the left utopian" named. RF> the Real exploiter under capitalism - not the businessman, and the banker. The banker too the businessman, only works it with the specific goods - money.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, susumanin, you wrote: S> Assignment of work of other people. Work or results of work? When results of work  the society appropriates it maintenance? And when the state?... <<RSDN@Home 1.0.0 alpha 5 rev. 0>>

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, Submitter, you wrote: S> And if the person carries on business, has no credits, uses bank only for cashing in of money (the salary etc.) as the bank "exploits"? Here that such people was not - all at once learn that business it is necessary to do only on credits - differently it , it is unprofitable and generally faugh-faugh-faugh.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, susumanin, you wrote: S>> it is necessary to Begin with determinations. What is the maintenance? S> assignment of work of other people. That is, if I helped the old woman to dig over a kitchen garden it exploited me?

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, Socrat, you wrote: S> That is if I helped the old woman to dig over a kitchen garden it exploited me? And to look in the dictionary at a word meaning "assignment" it is feeble?

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> Dear colleagues how you think what alternatives to capitalism can exist? Communism naturally. Moreover - it is inevitable, if earlier the mankind does not cut itself.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, susumanin, you wrote: S> And to look in the dictionary at a word meaning "assignment" it is feeble? You want to tell, what if the worker voluntary sells the labor no assignment is present, and, means, there is no also a maintenance?

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, sambl4, you wrote: S>> And if the person carries on business, has no credits, uses bank only for cashing in of money (the salary etc.) as the bank "exploits"? S> Here that such people were not - all at once learn that business it is necessary to do only on credits - differently it , is unprofitable and generally faugh-faugh-faugh. And in what a problem with credits? Percent in the cost price leave also all

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> Well that is what alternatives to a social and economic system at which banks which parasitize on usury have the real power can exist? Capitalism is not the economic power of businessmen, and the economic power of banks, at which businessmen same exploited, as well as hired workers. The real exploiter under capitalism - not the businessman, and the banker. Well, here is how in China. Combination of capitalism and centralized control. Though at them in plans, just, decentralization and commercialization. And the account of banks it almost agree. With one correction. Banks too are necessary. They need not to give the chance for gamble and not to allow to them to be investors.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, pagid, you wrote: P> Work or results of work? The second. P> when results of work  the society appropriates it maintenance? And when the state? Itself as you think?

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, Socrat, you wrote: S> you Want to tell, what if the worker voluntary sells the labor no assignment is present, and, means, there is no also a maintenance? You strange. There is a concept of maintenance, say, in  theories. It is considered in other economic doctrines and  differently. So here what difference that I want to tell, when it is all 1000 times (likely more) are already written, chewed and disassembled. Whether If you really interests is maintenance operation under the contract under capitalism, can open Google and familiarizes with Marx's judgement in this respect (enough Wikipedia). But if to you strongly laziness, I so and to be, tell that Marx considered that the answer to this question - "Yes".

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, RussianFellow, you wrote: RF> Dear colleagues how you think what alternatives to capitalism can exist? Exist. Well there, feudalism, a slaveholding system... RF> Well that is what alternatives to a social and economic system at which banks which parasitize on usury have the real power can exist? Capitalism is not the economic power of businessmen, and the economic power of banks, at which businessmen same exploited, as well as hired workers. The real exploiter under capitalism - not the businessman, and the banker. The bank does the useful thing: allows you to buy sowing grain today, to plow and sow a field, half a year to wait for a crop, to collect it and to sell, and in an interval somehow to live. Without bank you could not sow a field, and only small  because on  you would not have not enough own means. And can and on  would not suffice. Certainly, the bank from it has something, instead of is engaged in this activity from charitable reasons.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, susumanin, you wrote: S> Itself as you think? I think that the term maintenance strongly  and is better not to use it.... <<RSDN@Home 1.0.0 alpha 5 rev. 0>>

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, pagid, you wrote: P> I Think that the term maintenance strongly  and is better not to use it. I even know to whom better. And to whom is worse - too clearly.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, susumanin, you wrote: S> I even know to whom better. And to whom is worse - too clearly. You know All. But here about joint-stock company and the state and could not tell anything. And about the old woman and a kitchen garden too.... <<RSDN@Home 1.0.0 alpha 5 rev. 0>>

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, Cornetov, you wrote: the C> to Capitalism - as to the world of the free driving of capitals (there where in them the big need), effective alternatives cannot be. It seems to me that here are possible . For example, rigid state regulation of economy (various means) at private property saving on the small and average enterprises. Cs> to Capitalism - as to the world of maintenance of one people others with unfair reallocation of incomes, effective alternatives are possible. I about the same! I against 1 % of the population of the Earth owned 90 % of its riches! I against foliation of people on too rich and poor! I - for a valid society!

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, susumanin, you wrote: whether S> If you really interests is maintenance operation under the contract under capitalism, can open Google and familiarizes with Marx's judgement in this respect (enough Wikipedia). Marx lived and created one and a half centuries ago. Since then much that changed, its some ideas have been checked up in practice and refuted. Therefore it is necessary to concern its expressions carefully. As to maintenance during its time there was a big unemployment, for workers to find though any operation was a survival question, and they had to suffer so much all... It was valid similar for maintenance. Now the question on a survival is not necessary, vacancies full, only not on each operation workers go, it is necessary to employ Tadjiks. If I do not like the employer, I will leave to another. Whether it is possible to speak about maintenance now?

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

RF> the real power banks have it truly. RF> which parasitize on usury? It is incorrect. They parasitize on the right of emission. To transfer the right from legitimate authority banks it is necessary to write the appropriate law. What is the issued money should get to economy through the budget.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, Socrat, you wrote: S> Marx lived and created one and a half centuries ago. And for one and a half centuries nobody found time to write something of anything fuller and universal about economy than the Capital. S> since then much that changed, its some ideas have been checked up in practice and refuted. Therefore it is necessary to concern its expressions carefully. What ideas ? Whether S> It is possible to speak about maintenance now? And what hinders? The rate of exploitation changed only, all remaining remains on the places:  on means of production, necessity to work, assignment of a surplus value by the exploiter.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, pagid, you wrote: P> you know All. Unfortunately it is far (very much) not all. P> but here about joint-stock company and the state and could not tell anything. And about the old woman and a kitchen garden too. About this all Marx told still. And something prompts to me that you are familiar with these answers.

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Re: Alternatives to capitalism

Hello, susumanin, you wrote: S> About this all Marx told still. And something prompts to me that you are familiar with these answers. On these two questions is not present. I can assume certainly as them could answer , but something you do not hasten to answer, likely understand what justify the answer cannot.... <<RSDN@Home 1.0.0 alpha 5 rev. 0>>