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Topic: And if all from the beginning?

Let's imagine free imagination. All existing a software in one stage disappeared. All. Iron remains. Without changes. Programmers too anywhere did not get to, but everything that they know about languages, libraries,  etc. they suddenly completely forgot. There were only general principles and the algorithms which are not dependent on languages etc. And you are a demiurge. In your forces instantly to create new a software with the same functionality (for users) to create languages, libraries and  and to enclose this all in heads of programmers so they are able work at once with these new means at former professional grade. Well and you after that depart aside and to interfere any more will not be. In general after you made it, the software world again exists, but on the basis of other means offered by you. And programmers continue the operation, too with usage of these new means. Presented? A question following. What you made of the existing in the almost same type in what it exists now and what would make in another way? Only the request - do not waste the talents on trifles. Do not write that you would change a border at any window or generally made its round. Here, say, a sentence to replace TCP/IP with something other - that is another matter. Or instead of files to enter... Well I do not know that. Certainly, argue. P.S. For those to whom my preamble is not necessary, I will formulate a question more realistically. What from this, what is put in existing a software, made how and it would be necessary "on mind" to make, and what it would be necessary to make differently, yes only, alas, it is impossible - hinder damned compatibility and huge operating time? P.P.S. At me the impression was added that some participants of discussion not against and the world to alter (decimal system to replace, time on other to measure, even number pi to inspect). The request nevertheless to remain within the limits of a subject. To this demiurge of possibility to change iron, especially an external world I did not give

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> That from this, what is put in existing a software, made how and it would be necessary "on mind" to make, and what it would be necessary to make differently, yes only, alas, it is impossible - hinder damned compatibility and huge operating time? I JavaScript would remove. Would replace than resemble on C# or Java.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> also what would make in another way? It is necessary to make something with a calendar and time.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> That from this, what is put in existing a software, made how and it would be necessary "on mind" to make, and what it would be necessary to make differently, yes only, alas, it is impossible - hinder damned compatibility and huge operating time? If everything that is not pleasant, we avoid, and we go some other way, by all means we find a new rake, is not worse than the old

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> that would make in another way? To pass to numeration system with the base selected rationally, instead of evoljutsionno-biologically.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Qulac, you wrote: Q> Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD>> That from this, what is put in existing a software, made how and it would be necessary "on mind" to make, and what it would be necessary to make differently, yes only, alas, it is impossible - hinder damned compatibility and huge operating time? Q> I JavaScript would remove. Would replace than resemble on C# or Java. Sewed on soap?? The pi-code is necessary!!

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> that would make in another way? A circle constant to name other number: https://tauday.com/tau-manifesto

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> What you made of the existing in the almost same type in what it exists now and what would make in another way? I would replace With ++, Java and C# with one language without VM with garbage collection (). But about it it is a lot of different judgements. PD> Here, say, a sentence to replace TCP/IP with something other - that is another matter. Or instead of files to enter... Well I do not know that. Instead of IPv4 and a hell with NAT to use at once IPv6. PD> Only the request - do not waste the talents on trifles. Do not write that you would change a border at any window or generally made its round. Generally, in change IT are easier implemented, than in other engineering areas. Therefore it is more of any legacy especially I do not complain.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> Here, say, a sentence to replace TCP/IP with something other - that is another matter. Or instead of files to enter... Well I do not know that. At me all at once would be on IPv6 without being exchanged on IPv4. PD> That from this, what is put in existing a software, made how and it would be necessary "on mind" to make, and what it would be necessary to make differently, yes only, alas, it is impossible - hinder damned compatibility and huge operating time? It was not necessary to do Java.NET and a heap of other development importing disorder and swaying, dividing programmers on specialization concerning building tools, instead of to ability to use algorithms. C for applications would use a C/C ++ and were  for GNU/Linux. All code , would work on a desktop/servers, smart phones, industrial controlers and other devices. An emphasis in applications on high performance and minimum consumption of operative storage, as consequence power efficiency. Besides it is possible to imagine anything you like, any luminous computer. In practice it is visible evolutionary driving from one technologies to another. If one technology for programmers is better another the best survives, without looking at all at all attempts to advance the worst. And still, compatibility and other not too strongly also hinder. Another matter it is necessary to lead huge work, and this set of conditional  hours, and experts of high level. The same smart phones do with calculation that their user in some years, and even throws out earlier, that is initially operation in . It would be good to standardize libraries of algorithms implementing in them the best experts of programming.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Qbit86, you wrote: Q> It is necessary to make something with a calendar and time. Here we are restricted by that does not depend on the IT world.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Qbit86, you wrote: Q> to Pass to numeration system with the base selected rationally, instead of evoljutsionno-biologically. Generally in the computer not too it is a lot of it. All arithmetics in the core not in it, in it only an output of results. If it is a question not of IT, and about the world as a whole is from us does not depend.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> That from this, what is put in existing a software, made how and it would be necessary "on mind" to make, and what it would be necessary to make differently, yes only, alas, it is impossible - hinder damned compatibility and huge operating time? Actually  and compatibility remained only in OS. OS completely from zero, taking into account the best operating time accordingly would rewrite. That a kernel separately. Divided into units, as much as possible independent, and in a kernel would leave minimum possible amount of units. That one OS could be delivered in a microwave both in a desktop. And in a microwave the foundation architecture was the same, but there there would be only that is necessary for a microwave. And in a computer - everything that is necessary for a computer, and all could be collected from bricks. The software would put from the centralized shop of applications, as now. At me to line is ideas concerning ideal OS and that together all will collect the enormous document. At once at designing it would be put that OS should work on any processor, from i8080 and is easier to the modern and future monsters. Most likely in a fire chamber would throw out the file system concept, instead that that like object and a dial-up of tags. Precisely would throw out concept of a way to a file! The program at once would put with all dependences, all programs let live in the sandbox. Plus the interaction mechanism between programs when they was general-purpose are able to inform another that they are able. Programs would make without fail broken into units, at least would divide without fail UI (and UI units can be a little, for example vocal UI, text UI, graphic UI) and a functional. API (as much as possible compact and general-purpose) would try to think over very much and very carefully that then it was not necessary to change. Would admit, for example, possibility of direct dialogue between programs passing OS, including between programs, nothing knowing about each other. Accordingly at first within a year would write the document, concerning architecture of future OS, carefully thinking over not to repeat all reefs, on which  the industry. In particular at once would consider that I all will foresee a horse-radish, but should to think over as that the mechanism of refactorings of the future jambs. On bytes for high-level things would not save.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Would make so that all languages at the moment of creation supported only Russian. Americans,  around While () If () For (  = 0 would wake up;  <.;  ++).

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> What you made of the existing in the almost same type in what it exists now and what would make in another way? 1. Any codings except utf-8 2. HTML, CSS,   on , instead of all it the general-purpose markup language with the sizes in millimeters (to display correctly task of the driver of a piece of iron) for all from printers, to phone screen. All icons strictly vectorial 3. With on , instead of it simple, consistent and logical language ground (how to make it is correctly possible to ask me) 4. POSIX on  after With, let interfaces will be written by people able to program 5. Python, Java script and other  hand-made articles on  To begin with suffices.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, velkin, you wrote: V> it was not necessary to do Java.NET and a heap of other development importing disorder and swaying, dividing programmers on specialization concerning building tools, instead of to ability to use algorithms. C for applications would use a C/C ++ and were  for GNU/Linux. All code , would work on a desktop/servers, smart phones, industrial controlers and other devices. With ++ it would be not necessary

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: PD> Iron remains. Without changes. And that so? I felt a little MC68000 - after Intel ` and simply paradise any. All simply and simply.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: 0> With ++ it would be not necessary And what adequate changeover of a C/C ++? Give by a topic example we present that platforms.NET, Java and as many programming languages disappeared. As a whole the computer infrastructure suffered, but computers on the former work. We remove a C/C ++ and there comes the global end, kernels of operating systems, the driver, a Web server, a database, cad, games and many other things cease to exist. It by the way as says what to subject to disappearance it is necessary for a C/C ++ as after that all remaining simply disappears or will not work, because uses other programs written on a C/C ++.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, elmal, you wrote: PD>> That one OS could be delivered in a microwave both in a desktop. And in a microwave the foundation architecture was the same, but there there would be only that is necessary for a microwave. If in a microwave the primitive microcontroller then Si is used. And if that more abruptly then it is possible to deliver  or something similar. The machine of states is necessary to a normal microwave only, here it is possible to manage and without OS. PD>> at me to line is ideas concerning ideal OS and that together all will collect the enormous document. At once at designing it would be put that OS should work on any processor, from i8080 and is easier to the modern and future monsters. It can then better to be repelled from idea of uniform algorithmic basis. PD>> most likely in a fire chamber would throw out the file system concept, instead that that like object and a dial-up of tags. Precisely would throw out concept of a way to a file! And here in the modern programming there are such concepts as: URI = URN + URL URI (/ju   r 'a /English Uniform Resource Identifier) - a unitized (uniform) resource identifier. URL - the uniform pointer of a resource (English Uniform Resource Locator, URL / ju   r 'el/) - a uniform locator (occurrence determinant) resource. <Circuit>: [//[<login>: <password>] <a host> [: <port>]] [/] <URL-> [? <Parameters>] <anchor> URN (English Uniform Resource Name) - a uniform title (name) of a resource. <URN>:: = "urn:" <NID> ":" <NSS> <NID> a namespace identifier (English Namespace Identifier); represents  interpretation NSS, it is not case-sensitive. <NSS> a line from a certain name space (English Namespace Specific String); This idea about a dial-up of tags is URN where NID name spaces such as checksums or something less reliable, like ISBN and so on, and tags represent NSS. Therefore we basically new do not receive anything, the same magnet-references. The URI-circuit magnet: - opened, being in a stage of a working draft copy the standard defining the URI-scheme of so-called magnet-links, intended preferentially for instructions on the resources accessible to loading through P2P networks. As a matter of fact here anything to delete in global sense it is not necessary, it is necessary only  P2P networks to more convenient state. PD>> the program at once would put with all dependences, all programs let live in the sandbox. In smart phones of the user put a cancer, or authorize the program, or it will not be installed. As a whole yes, it is necessary to restrict programs, but not as it is now implemented. Still people complain on vulnerability in processors.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Pavel Dvorkin, you wrote: Q>> It is necessary to make something with a calendar and time. PD> Here we are restricted by that does not depend on the IT world. Well though we can affect a format of representation?

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, velkin, you wrote: V> And what adequate changeover of a C/C ++? Any other language in which because of evolutionary development there would be no such horrors

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: V>> And what adequate changeover of a C/C ++? 0> Any other language in which because of evolutionary development of such horrors would not be more specific that should have this programming language or not have at all. Purely abstractly it is possible to imagine that there is such system in which program itself there is under the current badly formulated requirements, but it already from fantasy area. Besides in a topic it is not told about hardware changeover, that is we deal all with the same zoo from x86, x64, arm and so on, and videocards at us from green and red, instead of quantum supercomputers. Or what arguing there was recently. Here there is at us a certain modern language of programming, but in it there is no multiple inheritance. Someone tells well, and someone in the absence of alternative starts it to invent anew. Too most with a procedural paradigm, well we throw out it and we leave generalized, and instead of the functional we will use the object-oriented. The abstraction layer raised, and further we watch, as programmers already without us invent procedural and functional programming. So if to think, here I for example, deprived of programmers.NET and Java. It is Already recognized that  the code faster. Nevertheless without a bright example the same a JIT compilation  anew and also all will use it. It turns out to go all is necessary by the way of software creation exceeding available. And normal reduction of the invented leads only to that people and so waste time on the reinvention. As a matter of fact now and without any assumptions programming moves this way.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: PD>> Iron remains. Without changes. 0> and that so? I felt a little MC68000 - after Intel ` and simply paradise any. All simply and simply. Simply I suggest to consider only a software not to leave aside. Not too strongly software depends presently on iron. Appear now for desktops the new processor accepted by the world - and it is very fast Linux together with Windows for computers on this processor will be ready. Practically with the same API and the same means. And iron to consider, in particular a ruler x86/x64 - so here and there is nothing to consider. If my demiurge  this processor in the same type in what it developed of evolution 4004-> 8008-> 8080-> 8086-> 80286-> 80386-> and further it there would be not a demiurge, and the idiot.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, Qbit86, you wrote: Q> Well though we can affect a format of representation? Inside - though store generally all in . On exterior (for the user) - is not present.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, velkin, you wrote: V> If in a microwave the primitive microcontroller then Si is used. And if that more abruptly then it is possible to deliver  or something similar. The machine of states is necessary to a normal microwave only, here it is possible to manage and without OS. OS can be necessary that this microwave to control from a mobile phone. Thus the microwave program says to an exterior surrounding that she a microwave, is able to turn on, install capacity from a certain range, is able to twist a grill and to speak where it is allocated. Accordingly I, as the developer for the clever house can write a software allowing on request "allow to me to devour pizzas" to get a pizza from the refrigerator and to place in a microwave, to warm up and further to bring to me on desktop. And it will work correctly if I have microwave, the refrigerator and the robot which is engaged in food drag and drop. Thus the microwave, the refrigerator, the robot, about each other know nothing. If at my place there is no robot - the management system the clever house tells that excuse, I do not have device for filling of the device of cooking. Give  itself drag, but advises to buy the robot.

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Re: And if all from the beginning?

Hello, elmal, you wrote: Read with pleasure. On a network you will not express?