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Topic: Simulation pains

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, marcopolo, you wrote: M> https://scisne.net/a-2486 Sorri, children. A spring, it is not interesting to consider. In February mean cold gray days,  you do not descend anywhere - it is possible and about  . That you resulted That - already 100 times are sucked round.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, marcopolo, you wrote: M> [q].../q] the Pancake, like I not the silly person, but I can not seize an essence of a problem with it  in any way. Can at me is not present ? I will imitate...

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: 0> the Pancake, like I not the silly person, but I can not seize an essence of a problem with it  in any way. 0> Can at me is not present ? 0> I Will imitate... Probably there are people without soul and you one of them. You do anesthesia at the stomatologist at ? On idea it is not necessary for you, as for you so-called "pain" - only the information on that that with a tooth nerve is produced by manipulations, after all this information is not new to you - you know where came. Or you simply do, because so it is accepted? It is interesting as percent of the people who do not have souls. I suspect that their majority. That all philosophers and great scientists a soul have the blessing - on it they among themselves consider . And to people without soul it as though and not interesting yes do not admit them in the big science, most likely such are created as .

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> Probably there are people without soul and you one of them. You do anesthesia at the stomatologist at ? On idea it is not necessary for you, as for you so-called "pain" - only the information on that that with a tooth nerve is produced by manipulations, after all this information is not new to you - you know where came. Here it - soul appears where hides, and as it to entice... <<RSDN@Home 1.0.0 alpha 5 rev. 0>>

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, marcopolo, you wrote: I very much like a film Eve - the absolutely not not suspecting little man suddenly learns that it the robot, and all is fastened on children's emotions.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> Probably there are people without soul and you one of them. You do anesthesia at the stomatologist at ? On idea it is not necessary for you, as for you so-called "pain" - only the information on that that with a tooth nerve is produced by manipulations, after all this information is not new to you - you know where came. S> or you simply do, because so it is accepted? Yes is not present, I do not love a pain and in every possible way I avoid. For my nerves so are arranged that at a pain I start to shout and twitch, throw out any hormones in blood and to avoid then repetition of similar situations. S> it is interesting as percent of the people who do not have souls. I suspect that their majority. S> that all philosophers and great scientists a soul have the blessing - on it they among themselves consider . And to people without soul it as though and not interesting yes do not admit them in the big science, most likely such are created as . What familiar discourse

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: 0> Yes is not present, I do not love a pain and in every possible way I avoid. For my nerves so are arranged that at a pain I start to shout and twitch, throw out any hormones in blood and to avoid then repetition of similar situations. But after all when the person benefits one million dollars - it too starts to shout and twitch, in blood any hormones are thrown out. But why that it is pleasant to it. Why one you estimate as something bad, and another estimate as something it is desirable? And not action since  to you to any lead. And as angrily estimate a signal and take great pain this signal to tear off. S>> it is interesting as percent of the people who do not have souls. I suspect that their majority. S>> that all philosophers and great scientists a soul have the blessing - on it they among themselves consider . And to people without soul it as though and not interesting yes do not admit them in the big science, most likely such are created as . 0> What familiar discourse Whence? Seriously nobody lifted this question, since the soul device remains a riddle.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Shmj, you wrote: 0>> Yes is not present, I do not love a pain and in every possible way I avoid. For my nerves so are arranged that at a pain I start to shout and twitch, throw out any hormones in blood and to avoid then repetition of similar situations. S> but after all when the person benefits one million dollars - it too starts to shout and twitch, in blood any hormones are thrown out. But why that it is pleasant to it. It in another way shouts and twitches, and hormones there others S> Why one you estimate as something bad, and another estimate as something it is desirable? And not action since  to you to any lead. And as angrily estimate a signal and take great pain this signal to tear off. Because tracks on a board so are dissolved nerves so are connected: from painful receptors in painful center in a brain, therefrom in motor areas and further to muscles so that abbreviations of muscles forced an organism to run off a source of a pain of Spirituality here no more, than in the PID-REGULATOR. S>>> It is interesting as percent of the people who do not have souls. I suspect that their majority. S>>> that all philosophers and great scientists a soul have the blessing - on it they among themselves consider . And to people without soul it as though and not interesting yes do not admit them in the big science, most likely such are created as . 0>> What familiar discourse S> Whence? Seriously nobody lifted this question, since the soul device remains a riddle. Yes there was in the last century one expert from Austria. Too divided people into born misters and slaves

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: 0>>> Yes is not present, I do not love a pain and in every possible way I avoid. For my nerves so are arranged that at a pain I start to shout and twitch, throw out any hormones in blood and to avoid then repetition of similar situations. S>> but after all when the person benefits one million dollars - it too starts to shout and twitch, in blood any hormones are thrown out. But why that it is pleasant to it. 0> it in another way shouts and twitches, and hormones there others Shouts as. And in what hormones others? Why one hormones it is bad, and others it is good? What at you for a hormone it is worked out at ? S>> Why one you estimate as something bad, and another estimate as something it is desirable? And not action since  to you to any lead. And as angrily estimate a signal and take great pain this signal to tear off. 0> because tracks on a board so are dissolved nerves so are connected: From painful receptors in painful center in a brain, therefrom in motor areas and further to muscles so that abbreviations of muscles forced an organism to run off a source of a pain And what for painful center such? Describe an essence of its operation. Only what it forces  to be reduced? But after all  hands at a pain is not result of operation of painful center - this response happens level more low - the brain will not be involved. If the problem was only in abbreviation  - that to anchor the person to a chair easier. Any  it is not necessary. But a problem in other. The person why that DOES NOT WANT to feel a pain. Here there is a concept of the kind/wished and bad/not wished. And at the computing system anything such is not present - even heating up of transistors does not correspond not wished for system.> spirituality here has more, than in the PID-REGULATOR. Spirituality - at the most painful center. You consider it as a black box and you do not have at all a question that means to feel a pain. As the painful center works how to create the mechanism, capable to feel a pain. As soon as you try to draw the circuit of such mechanism - and understand a problem. 0>>> what familiar discourse S>> Whence? Seriously nobody lifted this question, since the soul device remains a riddle. 0> yes was in the last century one expert from Austria. Too divided people into born misters and slaves But does not mean that slaves do not have soul.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, marcopolo, you wrote: M> M> As Shumejker supposes, to present an absence situation  it is possible, only presenting to the simulator - a being which is functional like us, i.e. possesses the same original mental conditions which we possess. For example, it has a belief about pain presence, desire to avoid a pain etc. However at the simulator miss original  states, for example, a pain, and it physically differs from us. It is interesting to consider simulation  an orgasm. Speak, there are such simulators

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> Spirituality - at the most painful center. You consider it as a black box and you do not have at all a question that means to feel a pain. As the painful center works how to create the mechanism, capable to feel a pain. As soon as you try to draw the circuit of such mechanism - and understand a problem. How you understand, what somebody (something) feels a pain? On behavior of object: it reacts to exterior influence by quite identified method - tries to avoid a pain source. Sometimes rather difficult way - for example, runs to the stomatologist. Accordingly, it also is  criteria to which there should correspond our mechanism - it should show similar behavior.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: 0> As you understand, what somebody (something) feels a pain? For myself I simply understand it. For others - a logical output from the experience and comparing of with others. 0> on behavior of object: it reacts to exterior influence by quite identified method - tries to avoid a pain source. Sometimes rather difficult way - for example, runs to the stomatologist. Accordingly, it also is  criteria to which there should correspond our mechanism - it should show similar behavior. It is a formalistic approach. The question  in essence cannot be resolved a formalistic approach. Here or the person in a state to ask itself a question and to understand their complexity, or is simple on algorithm  "because I so is programmed", without being cut into an original essence of a question.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, T4r4sB, you wrote: TB> It is a formalistic approach. The question  in essence cannot be resolved a formalistic approach. The entertaining statement. TB> here or the person in a state to ask itself a question and to understand their complexity, or it is simple on algorithm  "because I so it is programmed", without being cut into an original essence of a question. I try to be cut, but yet I do not see a problem essence That was specific the mankind cannot to make, yet does not solve a question ?

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: S>> Spirituality - at the most painful center. You consider it as a black box and you do not have at all a question that means to feel a pain. As the painful center works how to create the mechanism, capable to feel a pain. As soon as you try to draw the circuit of such mechanism - and understand a problem. 0> as you understand, what somebody (something) feels a pain? In any way. Only about myself I can tell that I feel a pain is simply is tested, instead of it is understood - exterior signs can not be. About remaining - by analogy since remaining people are similar to me on the device and behavior. But thus I cannot tell precisely the pain other person feels or only pretends to be. 0> on behavior of object: it reacts to exterior influence by quite identified method - tries to avoid a pain source. Nonsense. A pain at all always  changes in behavior. It can be suffered simply even to suffer for years. 0> Accordingly, it also is  criteria to which there should correspond our mechanism - it should show similar behavior. Brad.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: TB>> It is a formalistic approach. The question  in essence cannot be resolved a formalistic approach. 0> the entertaining statement. We resolve if to understand the device of painful center. TB>> here or the person in a state to ask itself a question and to understand their complexity, or it is simple on algorithm  "because I so it is programmed", without being cut into an original essence of a question. 0> I try to be cut, but yet I do not see an essence of a problem 0> That was specific the mankind cannot to make, yet does not solve a question ? It is A lot of: 1. A faith in afterlife. If there will be no this faith - religions will be not necessary. Churches and so forth will be not necessary - and there billions leave. 2. To resolve  for all comers. What in it of bad? Many people who could not implement itself - with honor this world is abandoned. And nobody tells that they burn in a hell since if there is no immortal soul - there is no also a hell. 3. To resolve slavery in all its displays. After all if sufferings of another only information handling - that that in it of bad? 4. To allow to kill all incapacitated incurably sick, especially mentally the sick. What for them to feed? 5. To resolve the death penalty. After all it cancelled because of religion, as a matter of fact. And as ability is connected to a question  to build the game, instead of to operate on algorithm. Probably you and so consider that religions are not necessary. But it only your faith since there is no scientific answer to a difficult problem of consciousness. And time is not present - that ability feel  can to be inherent in soul is not the statement and possibility. Probably you and now consider that  it is necessary to resolve, but it only your faith. Suddenly after it the immortal soul gets to a hell?

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> It is interesting as percent of the people who do not have souls. I suspect that their majority. S> that all philosophers and great scientists a soul have the blessing - on it they among themselves consider . And to people without soul it as though and not interesting yes do not admit them in the big science, most likely such are created as . Aha, directly gnosticism any. A pneumatics and . One carry in themselves spirit, others - are not present.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: 0> That the mankind is is specific cannot to make, yet does not solve a question ? Cannot formulate some basic difference itself from a small group moving on  to algorithm of particles. It is possible to get rid of it, to tell "differences is not present, all seems", and it too will be irrefutable (formally) a position. Those who does not throw out here gather.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> But a problem in other. The person why that DOES NOT WANT to feel a pain. Here there is a concept of the kind/wished and bad/not wished. And at the computing system anything such is not present - even heating up of transistors does not correspond not wished for system. You can scatter on a board thermal sensors and disconnect system at temperature excess. Some chips by the way, already go with the built in thermal sensors, and are disconnected. Than not "pain" from a flame and loss of consciousness from it? S> Spirituality - at the most painful center. You consider it as a black box and you do not have at all a question that means to feel a pain. As the painful center works how to create the mechanism, capable to feel a pain. As soon as you try to draw the circuit of such mechanism - and understand a problem. There the algorithm such is stitched, that's all

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 3V, you wrote: 3V> Aha, directly gnosticism any. 3V> a pneumatics and . 3V> One carry in themselves spirit, others - are not present. To you is more visible - was not interested in gnosticism. Here good article in a subject: https://habrahabr.ru/company/philtech/blog/350830/

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Marty, you wrote: M> you Can scatter on a board thermal sensors and disconnect system at temperature excess. Some chips by the way, already go with the built in thermal sensors, and are disconnected. Than not "pain" from a flame and loss of consciousness from it? In the sleep you faint - and what to you painfully to sleep? And here consciousness loss to a pain? To give you soporific - you are disconnected. Since roughly speaking work sensors. Also what? Where a pain? To you painfully to drink soporific? You simply try to cause similar association that what that the effect caused similar consequences. But actually association only in your head. S>> spirituality - at the most painful center. You consider it as a black box and you do not have at all a question that means to feel a pain. As the painful center works how to create the mechanism, capable to feel a pain. As soon as you try to draw the circuit of such mechanism - and understand a problem. M> there the algorithm such is stitched, that's all

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, marcopolo, you wrote: M> M> As Shumejker supposes, to present an absence situation  it is possible, only presenting to the simulator - a being which is functional like us, i.e. possesses same original mental Sholasty of our time: Distinctive features Compilation of "Totals" - universal compendiums on this or that question. Thorough learning of the delivered question with scrupulous reviewing of all chances and a refutation of not orthodox views. High culture of citing. With the same success it is possible to consider a question: "How many devils can goes in on a needle tip?"

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Shmj, you wrote: S> Hello, Marty, you wrote: M>> you Can scatter on a board thermal sensors and disconnect system at temperature excess. Some chips by the way, already go with the built in thermal sensors, and are disconnected. Than not "pain" from a flame and loss of consciousness from it? S> In the sleep you faint - and what to you painfully to sleep? And here consciousness loss to a pain? It is possible a signal sleep a tax. Awakening on the timer - slept, or on interruption - the wife/alarm clock awakes consciousness Loss thus that  faint sometimes from severe pain S> to Give you soporific - you are disconnected. Since roughly speaking work sensors. Also what? Where a pain? To you painfully to drink soporific? So the controler in sleep can not only be tired out a mode overheating, it is possible signal such submit. For example, from chemical analyzer S> you simply try to cause similar association that what that the effect caused similar consequences. But actually association only in your head. And you it is simple  toil, and that at you in a head, even I am afraid to present

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, Marty, you wrote: M> It is possible a signal sleep a tax. Awakening on the timer - slept, or on interruption - the wife/alarm clock awakes And what? And here a pain? M> consciousness loss thus that  faint sometimes from a severe pain Consciousness lose from set of the reasons. Why you solved that to the circuit "became sick" from overheating, instead of she fell asleep from a warm high. Know as happens - the person will be warmed and falls asleep. S>> to give you soporific - you are disconnected. Since roughly speaking work sensors. Also what? Where a pain? To you painfully to drink soporific? M> so the controler in sleep can not only be tired out a mode overheating, it is possible signal such submit. For example, from the chemical analyzer you while could simulate only a dream, but in any way a pain. Any attempts to drag in that that the pain is equivalent to a dream - are not justified. S>> you simply try to cause similar association that what that the effect caused similar consequences. But actually association only in your head. M> And you it is simple  toil, and that at you in a head, even I am afraid to present While I direct your thinking, instead of you mine.

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Re: Simulation pains

Hello, 0x7be, you wrote: M>>.../q] 0> the Pancake, like I not the silly person, but I can not seize an essence of a problem with it  in any way. Here an essence: [q] Following step Thaw suggests us to make such mental experiment. We present that scientists by means of gimmicks could change in places functionally identical mental states belonging to me and my simulator in such a manner that woken up in the morning, I will note that lost the , and my double, on the contrary, marks that its mental conditions acquired a qualitative painting. An important element of this experiment is that operation on changeover of mental states does not affect our memories. Thanks to memories on what were our mental states, we can note the happened changes. Further, to be convinced of impossibility missing , Thaw suggests to address to intuition and to answer a question: We would agree on similar operation, knowing, what as a whole for an organism it does not bring any harm? I.e. under the form it is the transaction on soul sale. One in one. By the way, can check up how much you the atheist by means of following conceivable experiment: we admit to you two solid persons in business suits, respectable, serious come, give you the cut-aways and offer there will be during a business dinner at restaurant, a vow at their expense. You come on a meeting and to you during a meal they do a following financial sentence: they without any additional conditions transfer you the total (the total is approximately equal to three your monthly salaries) a bank remittance, and in changeovers of it they want that you signed (ink) the contract on which you transfer them the soul. In the contract registers that you, the undersigned, consider yourselves as the atheist, do not trust in soul existence and consequently that it would be impossible to recognize the contract to fictitious you pay the specified total for record of your voice. You should awake to say in hearing (and you write down on a dictophone), say, the following text: "I voluntary renounce the soul and I transfer it to you for the specified total". Registers three doubles. Well as? Agree?