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Topic: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

When I was silly and young is yet familiar with , I thought that this such adaptation which switches transmissions and "squeezes out coupling" in an automatic mode. Then I did a bit of traveling on  and understood that I deeply was mistaken. Actually, the principal organ of control of the car, which behavior cardinally changes at appearance  is a pedal of gas. Here let's take any petrol (well it is possible also diesel) the average car with a manual transmission, and think, than controls the gas pedal? More or less technically the right answer consists that it changes an amount of the fuel arriving in the engine, and , through regulation of an amount of arriving air. But you it is serious?? What, somebody, pushing gas in a floor at driving on the car, pushing a gas pedal thinks "here now leads to discovery of the throttle dampfer on an inlet collector, what in turn allows the engine to consume the greatest possible amount of fuel, what considering current turns of the engine gives 70 h.p. of capacity what leads to magnification of turns of its rotation, what in turn leads to a dial-up of speed of the car with acceleration so much that g"? I am assured, at daily driving so anybody (or nearly so anybody, except for the mechanics at present adjusting a turbo-supercharging by the machine of the client) does not think. All think about the same, but in a little simplified type "here now pushing a pedal leads to car acceleration". Also it is finite, in most cases such simplification works. These are the most typical and economic (harmless) scenarios of relocation for a car in a mode of 2-3 thousand turns and a gear change on reaching these boundaries. The brain works simply: pushed gas - went. Engine turns grew too strongly - switched upwards. Threw gas - were decelerated. Turns too low - switched downwards. All well and only  sadden an iridescent pattern of universal happiness and slowness, breaking from traffic lights with squeal of rubber and we howl the engine somewhere near to a cut-off. However here there is a big dirty trick because actually all it works absolutely on another how I wrote in the first paragraph about "the engine can consume the greatest possible amount of fuel". And what the machine is dispersed proportionally to pushing gas is an illusion as acceleration is proportional to pushing only in very narrow range of values of this pushing, because that? Correctly, engine turns. The engine does not consume on 2000 turns as much some gasoline, how many on 5000. But thus here these all maximum capacities and accelerations to 100 for 10  for budgetary cars - they on such turns, since 4000  and above. But nobody goes by such turns permanently as it , is uneconomical . Therefore more or less skilled driver if needed quickly to be dispersed on  includes a hill-climbing gear, and to teapots in driving schools knock "before overtaking include 3 transmission",  i.e. to use all capacity of the car it is necessary to push not simply gas, but also correctly to select transmission to a check point. (Here it would be possible to arrange lyrical digression about  on the routes, happened that not so skilled or tired driver irregularly estimated position on road, quitted on overtaking and was not in time. Because, when he understood that is not in time, it is reflex indented a gas pedal into a floor, but the car as gathered slowly speed on 5 to transmission, and continued it to do before the collision. And business was at all in a lack of horsepowers. But, I will not be about it) In what all it results? To that at control of machine with  to the driver not simply it is necessary to make any additional motions by feet and hands. It just a small problem. Even at driving in cork on small speed it results only in training of certain muscles and does not strain a brain. The present problem consists that a gas pedal loses the intuitively clear for the normal user (not the sportsman and not the mechanic) assignment - to control car acceleration. All the same to force a pedal to do something close to it, the driver should hold in mind additional parameter - current turns of the engine, or that is even worse, two parameters - current speed and current switched on transmission. It most of all baffles me as the person who is engaged UX and user interfaces a little. Developers of the interface of the user speak - to force this vehicle set in motion by magic, to go faster, insufficiently simply to press on these crystal full-spheres more strongly - it is necessary to be convinced even of the correct position of stars and to shift a magic amulet in one of 5 tanks (if you will shift in wrong, all blows up). What the hell? Same magic! I simply want, that the vehicle went faster at my desire, what for to me the nobility about what that there amulets and tanks turns and current transmission? So, summarizing.  is not not to switch a hand of transmission and not to squeeze out coupling. More truly, and for this purpose too, but it not its principal bonus. Its principal effect - that car acceleration starts to be proportional to pushing a gas pedal. As soon as the driver does not accept acceleration on current transmission, it continues to push gas -  switches downwards and still downwards and so to  - before transmission minimum accessible at present. As gives that effect - the more pushed, the went faster. That allows to discharge a brain from  in it of current switched on transmission, speed and all other parameters like a moon phase. It is not necessary to think before manoeuvre and to include reduced - you simply you speak "I want to overtake as fast as possible this truck" and the machine itself selects it on what transmission is better to make. How much pushed gas - so the machine and goes within the limits of the possibilities. It is very convenient, actually.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Sshur, you wrote: S> all the same to force a pedal to do something close to it, the driver should hold in mind additional parameter - current turns of the engine, or that is even worse, two parameters - current speed and current switched on transmission. Speed is not necessary. Turns and transmission, and all. From them it is necessary to remember only transmission. Turns on hearing are normally perceived. S> it most of all baffles me as the person who is engaged UX and user interfaces a little. Developers of the interface of the user speak - to force this vehicle set in motion by magic, to go faster, insufficiently simply to press on these crystal full-spheres more strongly - it is necessary to be convinced even of the correct position of stars and to shift a magic amulet in one of 5 tanks (if you will shift in wrong, all blows up). What the hell? Same magic! I simply want, that the vehicle went faster at my desire, what for to me the nobility about what that there amulets and tanks turns and current transmission? And how to be to users for whom it is necessary that the machine held the necessary turns, instead of threw off them on the understanding? S> so, summarizing.  is not not to switch a hand of transmission and not to squeeze out coupling. More truly, and for this purpose too, but it not its principal bonus. Its principal effect - that car acceleration starts to be proportional to pushing a gas pedal. Only in the theory. In practice  as it is necessary to switch transmissions if the user pushed gas strongly enough. And here there is a proportionality rupture (except variators, unless). S> As soon as the driver does not accept acceleration on current transmission, it continues to push gas -  switches downwards and still downwards and so to  - before transmission minimum accessible at present. As gives that effect - the more pushed, the went faster. That allows to discharge a brain from  in it of current switched on transmission, speed and all other parameters like a moon phase. It is not necessary to think before manoeuvre and to include reduced - you simply you speak "I want to overtake as fast as possible this truck" and the machine itself selects it on what transmission is better to make. How much pushed gas - so the machine and goes within the limits of the possibilities. It is very convenient, actually. And if at me manoeuvre is a passage of slippery turn, in which the moment store on wheels is necessary to me quickly to regulate possible slidings by a gas pedal, without waiting, while the box thinks to switch transmission? Or I am simple on porridge I go, and the moment store on wheels is necessary to me easy to revolve on local nonuniformities of a covering (that did not stir)? Hi a manual mode, farewell automatic switching.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Lexey, you wrote: L> And how to be to users for whom it is necessary that the machine held the necessary turns, instead of threw off them on the understanding? And what for it is necessary to the user? L> and if at me manoeuvre is a passage of slippery turn, in which the moment store on wheels is necessary to me quickly to regulate possible slidings by a gas pedal, without waiting, while the box thinks to switch transmission? Or I am simple on porridge I go, and the moment store on wheels is necessary to me easy to revolve on local nonuniformities of a covering (that did not stir)? That is to skip on . Buy normal 44 and do not take for a ride... <<RSDN@Home 1.0.0 alpha 5 rev. 0>>

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Sshur, you wrote: S> all the same to force a pedal to do something close to it, the driver should hold in mind additional parameter - current turns of the engine, or that is even worse, two parameters - current speed and current switched on transmission. It most of all baffles me as the person who is engaged UX and user interfaces a little. Developers of the interface of the user speak - to force this vehicle set in motion by magic, to go faster, insufficiently simply to press on these crystal full-spheres more strongly - it is necessary to be convinced even of the correct position of stars and to shift a magic amulet in one of 5 tanks (if you will shift in wrong, all blows up). What the hell? Same magic! I simply want, that the vehicle went faster at my desire, what for to me the nobility about what that there amulets and tanks turns and current transmission? Well so you are simple not the driver, is more true - not the motorist. You know a horse-radish who  the interface. Go for a drive on FROM, there generally  it is not necessary to think. Generally, these  parameters allow to control machine how no automatic machine can. It is possible to fix transmission, and to work as gas exceptional in its range of turns. It that, for as love mechanics is the full, 100 % communication with the car both sides. Actually, in normal machines also dependence of submission of fuel at most pushings a pedal is regulated - in an economic and snow mode the strong pushing leads to a fuel weak service, in sports - , hardly pushed - the choke on full is uncovered. Also it is all - perfectly. With the automatic machine - you so cannot, your pushing as there  automatic machine brains, and your interaction gives rise to that of such monsters sometimes... From a series pushed - and it does not go, goes with time delays or . In general, there is no communication between you and the car. Therefore, if you the girl - the stupid blonde, or there the user FROM it is finite, are necessary for you is easier. But if you the man, not old , moreover and the motorist what  automatic machines can be?

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Sshur, you wrote: S> So, summarizing.  is not not to switch a hand of transmission and not to squeeze out coupling. More truly, and for this purpose too, but it not its principal bonus. Its principal effect - that car acceleration starts to be proportional to pushing a gas pedal. As soon as the driver does not accept acceleration on current transmission, it continues to push gas -  switches downwards and still downwards and so to  - before transmission minimum accessible at present. As gives that effect - the more pushed, the went faster. That allows to discharge a brain from  in it of current switched on transmission, speed and all other parameters like a moon phase. It is not necessary to think before manoeuvre and to include reduced - you simply you speak "I want to overtake as fast as possible this truck" and the machine itself selects it on what transmission is better to make. How much pushed gas - so the machine and goes within the limits of the possibilities. It is very convenient, actually. More and more, and the machine itself selects is in general, an ass. Well only for corks. Conveniently, but lives in it as in rubber  actually.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Lexey, you wrote: L> Or I am simple on porridge I go, and the moment store on wheels is necessary to me easy to revolve on local nonuniformities of a covering (that did not stir)? Look, in what results yours "that did not stir" and then do not say that you did not notify: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNRyBx-zeUI

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Grizzli, you wrote: G> It that, for as love mechanics is the full, 100 % communication with the car both sides. For same it do not love. G> actually, in normal machines also dependence of submission of fuel at most pushings a pedal is regulated - in an economic and snow mode the strong pushing leads to a fuel weak service, in sports - , hardly pushed - the choke on full is uncovered. Also it is all - perfectly. That is the artificial intelligence instead of a rope it is fine? What for to the man all this electronics-automatics, it the man. G> with the automatic machine - you so cannot, your pushing as there  automatic machine brains, and your interaction gives rise to that of such monsters sometimes... Brains of the automatic machine do not interpret pushing a pedal. Happens  and the dampfer to a drive from a rope, there is a mechanics and an electronic pedal of gas.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Still the automatic machine at  can produce the enormous moment which did not dream mechanics with potentially  coupling.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Grizzli, you wrote: G> With the automatic machine - you so cannot, your pushing as there  automatic machine brains, and your interaction gives rise to that of such monsters sometimes... From a series pushed - and it does not go, goes with time delays or . In general, there is no communication between you and the car. Therefore, if you the girl - the stupid blonde, or there the user FROM it is finite, are necessary for you is easier. But if you the man, not old , moreover and the motorist what  automatic machines can be? Looking what automatic machine. For the link laziness to search. Took two lighters (like Lancer Evo 10). For the pen planted skilled, for the automatic machine - the girl. As a result skilled  faster, and the first the girl finished.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Sshur, you wrote: S>... What the hell? Same magic! I simply want, that the vehicle went faster at my desire, what for to me the nobility about what that there amulets and tanks turns and current transmission? And the same problem is present on some (the majority?) automatic machines: you push , and the machine thinks some time. If you described the automatic machine where such is not present it agree.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Lexey, you wrote: L> Speed is not necessary. Turns and transmission, and all. From them it is necessary to remember only transmission. Turns on hearing are normally perceived. If turns it is audible, it is more than anything especially it is not necessary. But by their modern machines frequently it is not audible already. L> And how to be to users for whom it is necessary that the machine held the necessary turns, instead of threw off them on the understanding? Well for such on the one hand do manual modes, and on the other hand, it is necessary to not so normal user of a car. L> only in the theory. In practice  as it is necessary to switch transmissions if the user pushed gas strongly enough. And here there is a proportionality rupture (except variators, unless). Well, proportionally does not mean "linearly proportionally". Rough communication has enough. L> And if at me manoeuvre is a passage of slippery turn, in which the moment store on wheels is necessary to me quickly to regulate possible slidings by a gas pedal, without waiting, while the box thinks to switch transmission? Or I am simple on porridge I go, and the moment store on wheels is necessary to me easy to revolve on local nonuniformities of a covering (that did not stir)? L> Hi a manual mode, farewell automatic switching. I many times did stipulations about average drivers and not sportsmen. The majority should not fix transmission.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Real 3L0, you wrote: R3> Hello, Sshur, you wrote: S>>... What the hell? Same magic! I simply want, that the vehicle went faster at my desire, what for to me the nobility about what that there amulets and tanks turns and current transmission? R3> and the same problem is present on some (the majority?) automatic machines: you push , and the machine thinks some time. R3> if you described the automatic machine where such is not present it agree. Well, at me was both the thoughtful automatic machine and fast. Yes, on the thoughtful there is a time delay, but nevertheless, it is better to receive   in two seconds, than not to receive it generally.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Somebody can explain for stupid that happened on video? Thanks.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Sshur, you wrote: S> Well, at me was both the thoughtful automatic machine and fast. Yes, on the thoughtful there is a time delay, but nevertheless, it is better to receive   in two seconds, than not to receive it generally. And it is even better to receive it for 2  before it is required, but it only on the mechanic.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Muxa, you wrote: M> somebody can explain for stupid that happened on video? M> thanks. In my opinion, gave to gas on tram ways where coupling almost any and back moved and as the driver not so is able to lead a back drive instead of removing a foot from a gas pedal allow to twist strongly in the opposite direction, back wheels again seized asphalt and it carried away in other side.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Roma Mik, you wrote: > And it is even better to receive it for 2  before it is required, but it only on the mechanic. The majority of the modern automatic machines are able a manual mode. Time 5 used it at itself, from there is nothing to do.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Muxa, you wrote: M> somebody can explain for stupid that happened on video? M> thanks. It is very likely that at it wedged a back wheel. To that a vehicle rear-wheel.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Real 3L0, you wrote: R3> Hello, Grizzli, you wrote: G>> With the automatic machine - you so cannot, your pushing as there  automatic machine brains, and your interaction gives rise to that of such monsters sometimes... From a series pushed - and it does not go, goes with time delays or . In general, there is no communication between you and the car. Therefore, if you the girl - the stupid blonde, or there the user FROM it is finite, are necessary for you is easier. But if you the man, not old , moreover and the motorist what  automatic machines can be? R3> looking what automatic machine. For the link laziness to search. Took two lighters (like Lancer Evo 10). For the pen planted skilled, for the automatic machine - the girl. As a result skilled  faster, and the first the girl finished. So SST and other DSG you never the pen will change, while they with transmission not to overshoot - here then they brakes. In acceleration on the direct modern automatic machine at all you will not change the pen.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Hobbes, you wrote: H> Still the automatic machine at  can produce the enormous moment which did not dream mechanics with potentially  coupling. How many the moment it is necessary to you? At me on robot Vesta at  in a floor in boxes leaves. This counter of the automatic machine was necessary only to the automatic machine, which had 3-4 transmissions to replace the first, instead of to expand transmissions.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Sshur, you wrote: R3>> And the same problem is present on some (the majority?) Automatic machines: you push , and the machine thinks some time. R3>> if you described the automatic machine where such is not present it agree. S> Well, at me was both the thoughtful automatic machine and fast. Yes, on the thoughtful there is a time delay, but nevertheless, it is better to receive   in two seconds, than not to receive it generally. You did not understand. You wrote about two multifunctions: * the automatic machine - it is not necessary to think * the pen - it is necessary to think And so, the automatic machine with a time delay and  (which should to be able use - I am not able) is nothing better the pen because it is necessary to think, for example, at a time delay it is necessary to press a pedal hardly before manoeuvre (it be able). Well and on the automatic machine there is a situation when at other equal (speed of the machine, force of pushing a pedal) speed of acceleration differs. And it happens not on the big speeds. Here it is all transforms such automatic machine into something intermediate: any more the pen, but it is necessary to think still. By the way, tested Evolution 10 on the automatic machine a little - it too has a time delay on slow rate! From me already somehow at once desire it to buy subsided.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Tyomchik, you wrote: Those> It is possible hardly to press a muzzle a brake. It you about what case? Those> For quiet proslipping it is possible to select transmitting number lobes. Actually, it also is "farewell an automatic mode". Plus, lobes not by all machines is. At me only the transmission selector it is possible to switch.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, CreatorCray, you wrote: L>> And if at me manoeuvre is a passage of slippery turn, in which the moment store on wheels is necessary to me quickly to regulate possible slidings by a gas pedal, without waiting, while the box thinks to switch transmission? Or I am simple on porridge I go, and the moment store on wheels is necessary to me easy to revolve on local nonuniformities of a covering (that did not stir)? CC> That is to skip on . No to go on normal Russian roads in the winter. Porridge is a normal state of road after a snowfall when it had not time to clean yet. Ice too not a rarity outside of big cities where do not pour reagents.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Real 3L0, you wrote: R3> You did not understand. R3> you wrote about two multifunctions: R3> * the automatic machine - it is not necessary to think R3> * the pen - it is necessary to think Not so. It is necessary to think all the same (differently we should have a pilotless taxi with one controls - the assignment address), but on another, it is clear with an exception of knowledge of the internal device of a car that is doubtless plus from the point of view  more intuitively. R3> And so, the automatic machine with a time delay and  (which should to be able use - I am not able) is nothing better the pen because it is necessary to think, for example, at a time delay it is necessary to press a pedal hardly before manoeuvre (it be able). Well and on the automatic machine there is a situation when at other equal (speed of the machine, force of pushing a pedal) speed of acceleration differs. And it happens not on the big speeds. Well I did not tell that  it directly an ideal. An ideal, it likely an electrotrolley bus of type of tesla. But all the same, let dependence of acceleration on a level of pushing gas at  is not linear with coefficient 1, it at least is not a horizontal line as on  in some modes.

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

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Re: What for actually it is necessary (many beeches.)

Hello, Programmizd, you wrote: For this purpose is . Mode , at it vkljuch e  I start from 3 transmissions not about start if you did not understand, and about driving on constant speed.  in such mode throws off transmissions downwards, and the fixed is necessary. The winter mode is not at all boxes, no less than sports.