51

Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, mrTwister, you wrote: T> Well a key for enciphering that is stored in Windows and to change it for the at desire it is possible. Not the fact that thus connection for transmission will be installed.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Michael7, you wrote: M> Well here if  that for corporation like MS is difficult to install correspondence with the real person as these real people normally and so all necessary  enter at registration/activation oem-are visible on the computer. On garlic, can and it is not difficult. And under the law it to appear that can is almost impossible. Besides, as it was already told in a parallel branch even if the data is personal, it does not mean at all that they cannot be collected. It simply means that round them it is necessary to do slightly more than the formal knee-bends.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, AlexRK, you wrote: ARK> Only provided that "probable enough substantiation" exists and it will be accepted court. To write a substantiation, not the greatest problem if we speak about MS, explicitly more favourably than to do the separate version . And in court not MS will be answerable, and its opponents should prove that actually MS this data is not necessary, and to invent, as MS could achieve the same purposes, without collecting this data and without missing the advantage.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Sharowarsheg, you wrote: S> It seemed, instead of was. Population half-percent is capable to lift noise such that will seem that now the moon falls. All remaining pay for productivity. Not so it is a lot of politicians of all, and at them the task in the core to pull out languages - even they not all were excited. Well so many people also understand threats such normally not so. S> well, and what hinders to pay hardly more expensively for repair and maintenance of a tractor Belarus, or there John Dira, release of 1960? It after all will work absolutely perfectly, it can be repaired most and so on. Only , also will guzzle  so many that will pay more cheaply for the modern tractor. The matter is that is not present the equal account any, here literally any technical reason not to give to people to repair a tractor, except injust desire of its manufacturers. It was not simple earlier at them possibilities to it, including legal (DMCA, DRM). Generally, in an amicable way, it also a sign of proslipping of the antimonopoly organizations. S> danger of trojans not that they do something besides will of the owner, and that they do something such that at the owner becomes less money. Not all trojans steal money, moreover, antiviruses were when trojans were not engaged in it. I remember somewhere about half a year read article any  that many trojans/viruses behave quietly back and is not noticeable in system and the anti-virus companies can not come into the view for years. S> machines generally does about three billion actions a second on the processor - there is no moron who would demand acknowledgement for each action, and generally would like to state any will on each action of the machine. Will state in essential cases. For example, concerning that for  OS merges to the vendor. From the software license agreement followed that it could be even pushings of keys, that is, OS-kejlogger actually (I do not know left now in eula this point). That is already absolutely specific against confidentiality. It turns out literally that in win10 it is impossible to process the document in which relation operates NDA. S> And what for to buy new iron? Old years on twenty still a minimum, at least for house and office usage suffices. Let accumulate now spare parts the next 50 years, and sit with them. Are not ready to sacrifice labor productivity for the sake of absence of telemetry? Money it is a pity to enclose in an equipment store for 50 years? Well, and what to do. Telemetry presence is not a board for progress, and abusing progress. And in an amicable way, for a long time antimonopoly services should force both Microsoft and Intel and recently AMD to stop to restrict a customer.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, IB, you wrote: IB> to Write a substantiation, not the greatest problem if we speak about MS, explicitly more favourably than to do the separate version . It is not necessary to do it. It already is, and was from the moment of appearance Windows 10. The telemetry is  on top, allowing to supervise herd, using the monopoly position. And, by the way, MS and without that permanently does separate versions of OS. IB> and in court not MS will be answerable, and its opponents should prove that actually MS this data is not necessary, and to invent, as MS could achieve the same purposes, without collecting this data and without missing the advantage. Well, in a case with browsers it appeared not absolutely so.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, IB, you wrote: IB> Besides, as it was already told in a parallel branch even if the data is personal, it does not mean at all that they cannot be collected. It simply means that round them it is necessary to do slightly more than the formal knee-bends. At least the user can demand to show all that on it  and to demand to delete it.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, IB, you wrote: IB> And in court not MS will be answerable, and its opponents should prove that actually MS this data is not necessary, and to invent, as MS could achieve the same purposes, without collecting this data and without missing the advantage. (69) in a case when personal data can be processed legally as handling is the task necessary for performance in public interests or at realization of the powers of office laid to the controler, or on the basis of legitimate interests of the controler or the third party, nevertheless, the subject of the data should have the right to objection against handling of any personal data concerning it/to it in a specific situation. The controler should prove that its legitimate interest has preferential force over interests or fundamental laws and freedom of the subject of the data.... <<RSDN@Home 1.3.110 alpha 5 rev. 62>>

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Michael7, you wrote: IB>>... The formal knee-bends... M> At least the user can demand to show all that on it  and to demand to delete it.... That at all is not the formal knee-bends.... <<RSDN@Home 1.3.110 alpha 5 rev. 62>>

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, _Raz _, you wrote: _R _> As it not true if you sounded half of my treatment? Exactly therefore and not true, what not the full. _R _> restriction means resolution in boundaries and the prohibition out of them. Here now it is true. _R _> so if to GRPR restrictions were not, and with its input it appeared, he added the prohibition. Also locks, because resolution and was earlier." The prohibition "and" restriction "- different terms also it is not necessary to confuse and lower them particulars, in details all essence. And an essence, I can explain once again - as boundaries installs itself restricting it means only appearance of necessity for a competent substantiation, instead of the unconditional prohibition to collect any data. _R _> here at all too most. Here it is direct absolutely, adjusted for operation of lawyers. _R _> companions as blind of a topic blind Americans threaten the Author: dmitry251 Date: 30.05 10:04 received one more tool. The tool it is more or less - not an essence important. This tool does not forbid to do something, he only adds necessity of observance of some conditions. And so, all these companies of one figs under court walk, contain staff of lawyers and the budget on a payoff from the small stuck.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Michael7, you wrote: S>> It seemed, instead of was. Population half-percent is capable to lift noise such that will seem that now the moon falls. All remaining pay for productivity. Not so it is a lot of politicians of all, and at them the task in the core to pull out languages - even they not all were excited. M> well so many people also understand threats such normally not so. Well or threats actually not so are great, as it seems. M> The matter is that is not present the equal account any, here literally any technical reason not to give to people to repair a tractor, except injust desire of its manufacturers. It was not simple earlier at them possibilities to it, including legal (DMCA, DRM). Why injust desire? Who it suddenly such righteous persons who solve for remaining, what actions just and what are not present? S>> Machines generally does about three billion actions a second on the processor - there is no moron who would demand acknowledgement for each action, and generally would like to state any will on each action of the machine. M> Will state in essential cases. For example, concerning that for  OS merges to the vendor. It seems to you an essential case and it is bad. And it seems to me a trifle, in general good because I can receive more qualitative (debugged) a product for smaller money. M> from the software license agreement followed that it could be even pushings of keys, that is, OS-kejlogger actually (I do not know left now in eula this point). That is already absolutely specific against confidentiality. It turns out literally that in win10 it is impossible to process the document in which relation operates NDA. Well do not process, deliver itself  and work in it.  is not a duty, it is the contract. You or conclude it or not. You at all do not shoot for a failure to use a commercial product, unlike communism. S>> and what for to buy new iron? Old years on twenty still a minimum, at least for house and office usage suffices. Let accumulate now spare parts the next 50 years, and sit with them. Are not ready to sacrifice labor productivity for the sake of absence of telemetry? Money it is a pity to enclose in an equipment store for 50 years? Well, and what to do. M> telemetry presence is not a board for progress, and abusing progress. And in an amicable way, for a long time antimonopoly services should force both Microsoft and Intel and recently AMD to stop to restrict a customer. Who defines, what such abusing and what is good? Telemetry presence is not a board for progress, and a board for . Roughly speaking, the telemetry allows to spare on testing and to sell more cheaply. If  entered at itself telemetry, by the way, also compatibility perhaps can would be refined, well and generally humanity.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, AlexRK, you wrote: S>> All remaining are ready to talk about telemetry, but are not ready to pay money for its absence. ARK> a question ambiguous, . Here I am ready to pay money for absence of telemetry - but to me such possibility do not give. Certainly, I speak about more or less real variants, instead of about type variants "buy for the money Microsoft entirely and let out Windows without telemetry" or there "write the OS without telemetry and achieve its wide circulation" is not real variants. Linux deliver? Also pay not money, and time. ARK> well also is also other question - and why, actually, people should pay money for __ telemeterings? And all can on the contrary - they pay money for it _ _? Why presence of telemetry is cheaper than its absence? It is absolutely not simple question. Telemetry presence allows to spare on testing and debugging, and to make more features within the limits of available resources.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Sharowarsheg, you wrote: S> telemetry Presence allows to spare on testing and debugging, and to make more features within the limits of available resources. Well and why in that case it should be ciphered and in every possible way to hide from the user?

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Michael7, you wrote: M> Hello, mrTwister, you wrote: T>> Well a key for enciphering that is stored in Windows and to change it for the at desire it is possible. M> Not the fact that thus connection for transmission will be installed. MTM helps. And generally here: https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/24/view- … indows-10/

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, IB, you wrote: _R _>> So if to GRPR restrictions were not, and with its input it appeared, he added the prohibition. Also locks, because resolution and was earlier. IB> "prohibition" and "restriction" - different terms also it is not necessary to confuse and lower them particulars, in details all essence. So restriction is is specific in this case adds the prohibition. It was possible earlier, now is not present. Therefore for me this restriction - the prohibition. IB> and an essence, I can explain once again - as boundaries installs itself restricting it means only appearance of necessity for a competent substantiation, instead of the unconditional prohibition to collect any data. _R _>> here at all too most. IB> here it is direct absolutely, adjusted for operation of lawyers. (47) Legitimate interests of the controler, including the controler to whom personal data can be uncovered, or third party can create legal grounds for handling provided that they have no preferential force over interests or fundamental laws and freedom of the subject of the data, with the registration of reasonable waitings of subjects of the data based on mutual relation with the Controller. Such legitimate interest can take place, for example, if between the subject of the data and the controler there are appropriate relations in situations when the subject of the data is the client or is in the service the controler. Anyway legitimate interest presence needs a careful estimation, including concerning, whether the subject of the data can reasonably expect at collection of personal data that handling will be carried out for the specified purpose. Interests and fundamental laws of the subject of the data can have, in particular, prevailing force over interest of the controler of the data if personal data are processed in conditions when subjects of the data  do not expect carrying out of the subsequent handling. As the legislator is obliged at level of the legal act to provide legal grounds for handling of personal data by public authorities, such legal ground should not be applied concerning handling by public authorities at performance of the tasks by them. The handling of personal data necessary with a view of preventing of swindle, also is a legitimate interest of the appropriate controler of the data. Handling of personal data with a view of address marketing can be considered as the handling serving to a legitimate interest. Boundaries installs itself restricting, but in frames. Certainly, lawyers can move these frames, but remove them they cannot. So is not present, at all too most.... <<RSDN@Home 1.3.110 alpha 5 rev. 62>>

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Sharowarsheg, you wrote: S> Linux deliver? Also pay not money, and time. I cannot use  because there simply there are no applications necessary to me. And they cannot even be launched through Wine. It not a question of payment by time. If means "drank up itself  to the level necessary to you" it is a variant from discharge "buy Microsoft", that is not the real. The real choice is not present __ (well, meanwhile is Windows 7 which I and use, but whether for a long time). S> telemetry Presence allows to spare on testing and debugging, and to make more features within the limits of available resources. Truly. Similarly with low payment: allows to make more within the limits of available resources. But why it should be pleasant to users? Unless they have a choice to vote rouble? No, there is no at them such choice. Microsoft for them decided that it it is more important, and imposed the decision, using a monopoly position.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, AlexRK, you wrote: ARK> it is not necessary to do It. It already is, and was from the moment of appearance Windows 10. The telemetry is  on top, allowing to supervise herd, using the monopoly position. I had to build in telemetry a product and I assure you - to tear out it after that not the most simple task. And cost of this data is great enough, that is simple so them to refuse, lawyers and a row of exercises dataful - are cheaper. ARK> and, by the way, MS and without that permanently does separate versions of OS. To make and support separate edition of the product, rather expensive pleasure even if it is delivered on a flow. ARK> well, in a case with browsers it appeared not absolutely so. With browsers it appeared at all so. But it is is specific in this aspect, all exactly and was - opponents MS had  to prove that MS can and without the browser. They certainly achieved the, but is far not from the first attempt. And made it when already it be not become actual, only for one version and again did much harm to users as those remained out-of-pocket to download the browser in , because not than.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, _Raz _, you wrote: _R _> _R _> (69) In a case when personal data can be processed legally as handling is the task necessary for performance in public interests or at realization of the powers of office laid to the controler, or on the basis of legitimate interests of the controler or the third party, nevertheless, the subject of the data should have the right to objection against handling of any personal data concerning it/to it in a specific situation. The controler should prove that its legitimate interest has preferential force over interests or fundamental laws and freedom of the subject of the data. Here speech about the specific subject, instead of about the right of the vendor to collect the data as a whole. About as a whole, it is very accurately written "on the basis of legitimate interests of the controler or the third party". But  the subject can ask was specific it given not to process. Can even ask through court. But to remove collection of this telemetry from all users - cannot.

68

Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, AlexRK, you wrote: ARK> I cannot use  because there simply there are no applications necessary to me. And they cannot even be launched through Wine. It not a question of payment by time. If means "drank up itself  to the level necessary to you" it is a variant from discharge "buy Microsoft", that is not the real. The real choice is not present __ (well, meanwhile is Windows 7 which I and use, but whether for a long time). Pay for the high version, and in it in Group Policy, speak, there is a telemetry switch-off. https://www.kapilarya.com/allow-or-prev … windows-10 I think, as in servers such is, but I did not clarify. S>> telemetry presence allows to spare on testing and debugging, and to make more features within the limits of available resources. ARK> it is true. Similarly with low payment: allows to make more within the limits of available resources. But why it should be pleasant to users? Unless they have a choice to vote rouble? No, there is no at them such choice. There is at them a choice mass, in the core in a type  and the Macintosh, and also in the form of high versions ominous . Still while it is possible to disconnect a network, and to carry the data on .

69

Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, _Raz _, you wrote: _R _> Therefore for me this restriction - the prohibition. I already explained, why this logic is defective. _R _> boundaries installs itself restricting, but in frames. Certainly, lawyers can move these frames, but remove them they cannot. So is not present, at all too most. From the practical point of view - absolutely the same. That data which are necessary to the vendor of a software, it receives, on absolutely lawful bases. Simply for this purpose it is required more efforts. And these efforts, finally, affect a pocket of the same user.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, IB, you wrote: IB> I had to build in telemetry a product and I assure you - to tear out it after that not the most simple task. IB> to make and support separate edition of the product, rather expensive pleasure even if it is delivered on a flow. What for to tear out - already there is a version without telemetry. Also it is supported. LTSB. IB> and cost of this data is great enough, that is simple so them to refuse, lawyers and a row of exercises dataful - are cheaper. And here it already absolutely other question. And yes, because of it Microsoft will fight to the last.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Michael7, you wrote: M> Hello, Sharowarsheg, you wrote: S>> telemetry Presence allows to spare on testing and debugging, and to make more features within the limits of available resources. M> well and why in that case it should be ciphered and in every possible way to hide from the user? I for five minutes found in Microsoft Store "Microsoft Diagnostic Data Viewer". You it looked generally? It something is bad?

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, Sharowarsheg, you wrote: M>> Well so many people also understand threats such normally not so. S> well or threats actually not so are great, as it seems. While any Snouden does not tell that in general and was known earlier to experts, unless without some private particulars as revelation. M>> the matter is that is not present the equal account any, here literally any technical reason not to give to people to repair a tractor, except injust desire of its manufacturers. It was not simple earlier at them possibilities to it, including legal (DMCA, DRM). S> Why injust desire? Who it suddenly such righteous persons who solve for remaining, what actions just and what are not present? There is such piece, the property right is called. From which possibility to do everything with the property follows. Including with programs, in this property, and that very much  at such vendors turns out, type yours, but actually the rights are de facto selected. M>> Will state in essential cases. For example, concerning that for  OS merges to the vendor. S> it seems to you an essential case and it is bad. And it seems to me a trifle, in general good because I can receive more than the qualitative (debugged) product for smaller money. Excuse, but this point of view reminds prostitution. Prostitutes too can receive the vital blessings only for, yes for nonsense in general if do not forget about hygiene. M>> from the software license agreement followed that it could be even pushings of keys, that is, OS-kejlogger actually (I do not know left now in eula this point). That is already absolutely specific against confidentiality. It turns out literally that in win10 it is impossible to process the document in which relation operates NDA. S> Well do not process, deliver itself  and work in it.  is not a duty, it is the contract. You or conclude it or not. You at all do not shoot for a failure to use a commercial product, unlike communism. In practice it is very frequent de facto a duty. And such that if word-for-word to satisfy all conditions generally it is necessary to rise a cancer, here recently there was a history when in at a ms-forum proved that switch-off of updates is a violation of the license and as a result a piracy. In my opinion, seriously even agreed before that it is impossible to disconnect the Internet if on purpose not to allow to be updated. Like as it not a company official position, but also refutations .. S> Who defines, what such abusing and what is good? Telemetry presence is not a board for progress, and a board for . Roughly speaking, the telemetry allows to spare on testing and to sell more cheaply. If  entered at itself telemetry, by the way, also compatibility perhaps can would be refined, well and generally humanity. In , by the way at will the telemetry is at some programs, whether however at setting of the user ask he wishes and inform as to disconnect at any moment. By the way, really, to disconnect telemetry, as well as a row of other forced features in Windows it is possible, but only in high versions which to the normal user simply do not sell ( in LTSB  not all it is disconnected), at all without considering the price. Because, unlike normal physical users, corporate noodles on ears about beneficence of telemeterings not  and they do not begin to use really frankly  a software, besides in important places at them generally DMZ from which not . By the way, on noodles subject on ears and telemeterings. There are two concepts for safety in IT, is frequent  a word "trusted" which as though for all and, much less often heard "assurance" for especial users whom officially (that is, from the vendor) computers with special a biocatfish and OS with completely  doubtful pieces are delivered. That is, I assure, in really important situations all understand all about telemeterings, is simple interests of normal users thus are not protected.

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Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, AlexRK, you wrote: ARK> Well also is also other question - and why, actually, people should pay money for __ telemeterings? Because the telemetry is too money, payment means is more exact. If the vendor does not receive telemetry it loses profit so should compensate it. Therefore, or it is necessary either to pay, or to give the data. ARK> and all can on the contrary - they pay money for it _ _? Well it too most - the software without telemetry is more expensive... ARK> Why presence of telemetry is cheaper than its absence? It is absolutely not simple question. Absolutely simple))

75

Re: Telemetry in Windows and GDPR

Hello, mrTwister, you wrote: T> And generally here: whether whether https://www.ghacks.net/2018/01/24/view- … indows-10/ Really something large in wood died we Look quits and for all.