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Topic: Architecture game online

At us here small dispute quitted: whether to divide physically process shorthanding game world with the unit responsible for exterior interactions (sockets)? I.e. it is possible: - all to leave within the limits of one process. - to use two applications which through pipe exchange  packets. - generally to divide on the different servers, one server shorthands the world, sends  the data through sockets on other server, and that already delivers all on the world. P.S. The game world difficult enough and the server strains on a maximum. The typical sizes of a packet for one player - 500 in its side and 8 byte of reversely, 15-20 frames per second. Presumably one server should support hundreds players.

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: Not much aside, but on this subject there is a book - https://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/137764980/ N> - to use two applications which through pipe exchange  packets. It seems, quake3 on similar model it is made, even at single-user game - http://fabiensanglard.net/quake3/network.php

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: N> At us here small dispute quitted: whether to divide physically process shorthanding game world with the unit responsible for exterior interactions (sockets)? N> I.e. it is possible: N> - all to leave within the limits of one process. N> - to use two applications which through pipe exchange  packets. N> - generally to divide on the different servers, one server shorthands the world, sends  the data through sockets on other server, and that already delivers all on the world. N> P.S. N> difficult enough and the server strains the Game world on a maximum. The typical sizes of a packet for one player - 500 in its side and 8 byte of reversely, 15-20 frames per second. Presumably one server should support hundreds players. If you divide, the server will communicate all the same with an external world and to contain for this purpose the unit i.e. that it will not be divided, one more layer will simply be added. Sense in it only if for safety or any additional not trivial handling of packets.

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Re: Architecture game online

N> At us here small dispute quitted: whether to divide physically process shorthanding game world with the unit responsible for exterior interactions (sockets)? N> I.e. it is possible: N> - all to leave within the limits of one process. N> - to use two applications which through pipe exchange  packets. N> - generally to divide on the different servers, one server shorthands the world, sends  the data through sockets on other server, and that already delivers all on the world. At me hundreds were not, but it not an occasion to be silent one  considers the world (on a default everyone 100ms) N stupid  listen to clients, throw to the main thing  events, take away from it diffs of a state and send to clients all in one process, by itself clients interpolate between these most 100ms what for somehow differently?

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Qulac, you wrote: Q> If you divide, the server will communicate all the same with an external world and to contain for this purpose the unit i.e. that it will not be divided, one more layer will simply be added. Sense in it only if for safety or any additional not trivial handling of packets. Well here all question in it, whether is any sense ? Reefs resources Are, etc. admissible for handling of a considerable quantity of exterior unreliable connections how many it is required? Administrators say that insignificant, but I while  as it .

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, koenig, you wrote: K> one  considers the world (on a default everyone 100ms) Well there 8 , on powerful enough iron. K> N stupid  listen to clients, throw to the main thing  events, take away from it diffs of a state and send to clients K> all in one process, by itself It yes. K> clients interpolate between these most 100ms K> what for somehow differently? A counter that the world huge and interactive. Game while only in  quits, but in the future it would be desirable  a pattern on several servers to launch.

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: N> Hello, Qulac, you wrote: Q>> If you divide, the server will communicate all the same with an external world and to contain for this purpose the unit i.e. that it will not be divided, one more layer will simply be added. Sense in it only if for safety or any additional not trivial handling of packets. N> well here all question in it, whether is any sense ? Reefs, etc. N> resources Are admissible for handling of a considerable quantity of exterior unreliable connections how many it is required? Administrators say that insignificant, but I while  as it . Administrators, for the normal scenario of usage, are right, and here reefs it is the artful player who the actions tries to put out of action the server, for example sends great volumes of the data that they would lie in the server buffer and by that occupied its storage. So if to divide, for safety, what to protect a primary server from undesirable actions of players.

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Re: Architecture game online

N> the Counter that the world huge and interactive. Game while only in  quits, but in the future it would be desirable  a pattern on several servers to launch. A severe choice. It seems to me, requirements to productivity/bandwidth are easy for reducing moderating appetites in complexity of the world, and here latency to reduce difficult anyway. And  the data is a next drop in a bowl latency just. I would be afraid such to do. p.s. Not mandatory to reduce complexity, it is possible to shorthand more roughly if that

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, koenig, you wrote: K> a severe choice. It seems to me, requirements to productivity/bandwidth are easy for reducing moderating appetites in complexity of the world Well here complexity of the world it is a key counter of a toy. K> and here latency to reduce difficult anyway. And  the data is a next drop in a bowl latency just. I would be afraid such to do. I thought somehow to agree with providers that servers were physically close or even are in a special way configured for reduction of internal latency.

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Re: Architecture game online

K>> a severe choice. It seems to me, requirements to productivity/bandwidth are easy for reducing moderating appetites in complexity of world N> Well here complexity of the world it is a key counter of a toy. K>> and here latency to reduce difficult anyway. And  the data is a next drop in a bowl latency just. I would be afraid such to do. N> I thought somehow to agree with providers that servers were physically close or even are in a special way configured for reduction of internal latency. Then I would take the fattest server and  would scatter on different , but separate processes and especially distributed servers would avoid as could but here I theorize, such experience at me is not present

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: N> I thought somehow to agree with providers that servers were physically close or even are in a special way configured for reduction of internal latency. Speak, Eve Online works on a cluster connected Infiniband. However, such approach contradicts normal workflow "money at us is not present, therefore let's be launched on a shit and as money appear - a shit we buy in addition, and we will write at once on MongoDB, it on a shit is well scaled".

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Re: Architecture game online

N>> I thought somehow to agree with providers that servers were physically close or even are in a special way configured for reduction of internal latency. Speak, Eve Online works on a cluster connected Infiniband. However, such approach contradicts normal workflow "money at us is not present, therefore let's be launched on a shit and as money appear - a shit we buy in addition, and we will write at once on MongoDB, it on a shit is well scaled". Why contradicts? Launched on a cheap cluster, suffered bought road about  we forget, of course, it here generally

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Glory, you wrote: Speak, Eve Online works on a cluster connected Infiniband. However, such approach contradicts normal workflow "money at us is not present, therefore let's be launched on a shit and as money appear - a shit we buy in addition, and we will write at once on MongoDB, it on a shit is well scaled". Well under initiating plans there there should be generally general-purpose  with a drawing of level  of games. Then, of course, cut to a tetris with claims.

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: N> At us here small dispute quitted: whether to divide physically process shorthanding game world with the unit responsible for exterior interactions (sockets)? N> I.e. it is possible: N> - all to leave within the limits of one process. N> - to use two applications which through pipe exchange  packets. N> - generally to divide on the different servers, one server shorthands the world, sends  the data through sockets on other server, and that already delivers all on the world. N> P.S. N> difficult enough and the server strains the Game world on a maximum. The typical sizes of a packet for one player - 500 in its side and 8 byte of reversely, 15-20 frames per second. Presumably one server should support hundreds players. I will come from the end. 15-20 frames are 900-1200 events in a minute.  Koreans in Starcraft2 produce APM to 600 in heavy . Thus and that it is less than efficiency duties (a lot of doubling ). On the average a minute of 300-400 actions. It is necessary to you in  so much? Animation can be smoothed on the client. Concerning servers I can tell that besides a time delay probably there will be problems: - the pool of sockets between servers to break  a pattern on pieces will be necessary and to send it through some flows. One socket always will be a bottleneck. Especially in case of locking requests (for example, usage something with the answer) it besides the managing director  through which you, possibly, will be  remote processes; - there will be a problem of disorder of a network it appears always. Simply always, even if pieces of iron are in one subnet. Eventually, it can be and . If you shorthand the world on several pieces of iron prepare that once a year (and even more often), a piece of the world from  at you falls out. And it should be spanned on spare iron. Appears  with the monitor; - a uniform point of a failure for connections the situation rare enough, but client  can sometimes die. The client  but only if can. An output to me presence dns with round-robin behind which some addresses are hidden here sees. Or public addresses which will be known by the client are simple some; - the server for a meta-game somewhere else should be hidden. If it is separate service, apprx. and if all of them together there is a risk to lose in case of problems also it. In some games simply  goes in the conditional offline from the main gameplay. Why not to make classical  under group of users? So often do, when even on one location it is visible only a part of players. Remaining in parallel measurements. If needed them it is possible . Passage between locations becomes through an additional connection to next . And that I do not understand, so it whence there 500 byte in a frame, if the world difficult? We admit, the world leads the life even if the user it does not see. As in . So these  it is possible to simplify, alter on formulas and  behavior on the timer. The fair world is not necessary to the player, it is necessary .

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, neFormal, you wrote: F> it is necessary to you in  so much? Animation can be smoothed on the client. It not , it is conditional . F> concerning servers I can tell that besides a time delay probably there will be problems: F> - the pool of sockets between servers F> to break  a pattern into pieces will be necessary and to send it through some flows. One socket always will be a bottleneck. Especially in case of locking requests (for example, usage something with the answer) Can be broken, left very well rather narrow passes between locations where events are easy for spanning - actually the boundary can be considered on different servers and . F> it besides the managing director  through which you, possibly, will be  remote processes; F> - there will be a problem of disorder of a network It is all then, now the question - to communicate with clients immediately from  which the world twists or somehow on another, owing to unknown persons to me of the reasons? F> - a uniform point of a failure for connections F> the situation rare enough, but client  can sometimes die. The client  but only if can. F> an output to me presence dns with round-robin behind which some addresses are hidden here sees. Or public addresses which will be known by the client are simple some; It is necessary so to do, before an output in . F> - the server for a meta-game somewhere else should be hidden. It that? F> and that I do not understand, so it whence there 500 byte in a frame, if patterns difficult? I was specific then will show to you, when I will tear to a comprehensible state

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: F>> - the server for a meta-game somewhere else should be hidden. N> it that? Ratings, , , tournaments, seasons, actions.

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: F>> - the pool of sockets between servers F>> to break  a pattern into pieces will be necessary and to send it through some flows. One socket always will be a bottleneck. Especially in case of locking requests (for example, usage something with the answer) N> Can be broken, left very well rather narrow passes between locations where events are easy for spanning - actually the boundary can be considered on different servers and . Not, I about  one piece of the world. Well, whether the location so difficult is not enough at you. F>> it besides the managing director  through which you, possibly, will be  remote processes; F>> - there will be a problem of disorder of network N> It is all then, now the question - to communicate with clients immediately from  which the world twists or somehow on another, owing to unknown persons to me of the reasons? I wrote that the connection point between front and  too can be a bottleneck with specific problems of type of lock. I, to tell the truth,  know badly, and sockets in such circuit met. Saw the similar circuit for  where  was much, and a gate to them one. Connections went to a gate,  assorted, to whom to send  and threw out them through a gate reversely. It turned out bright enough for a python. With a good store on scaling. If the channel sufficed.  only where will be  happens in your case. Can quite be that on the client though it too will be cheerful. Make, then tell it turns out such pg_bouncer

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, Nik, you wrote: N> At us here small dispute quitted: whether to divide physically process shorthanding game world with the unit responsible for exterior interactions (sockets)? N> - all to leave within the limits of one process. To divide always be in time, if there will be a necessity. And it should not to arise: some hundreds clients it are frivolous for asynchronous IO. Besides, it is very important to make at first something working, and already then to optimize.

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Re: Architecture game online

N>> - all to leave within the limits of one process. scf> to divide always be in time, if there will be a necessity. If at them plans to scatter all on a cluster is  complexity, considering time limits, . To grope operating architecture, most likely, will be the most difficult part of the project - I such would not postpone. Though I generally would not do the such, for that matter

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, koenig, you wrote: K> if at them plans to scatter all on a cluster is  complexity and in what complexity?

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Re: Architecture game online

K>> if at them plans to scatter all on a cluster is  complexity F> and in what complexity? To debug in  to network game the natural relativity theory - there is no global time, there is time by each machine and your code creates illusion  an event if  in geometry, say, that it more or less visually - it is possible to feel and guess and here if  in illusion creation  - it is simply scattered, you see that there is full , and it is possible to dig long a cluster this part complicates - interactions between  most likely will be added: you can rigidly cut patterns on independent pieces, but it will look , and the toad strangles you, when players on one piece pull hard also one  will groan, and remaining will stand idle

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, koenig, you wrote: K> to debug K> in  to network game the natural relativity theory - there is no global time, there is time by each machine and your code creates illusion  event K> if  in geometry, say, that it more or less visually - it is possible to feel and guess K> and here if  in illusion creation  - it is simply scattered, you see that there is full , and it is possible to dig long the same that with multithreading K> the cluster complicates this part - interactions between  most likely will be added: you can rigidly cut patterns on independent pieces, but it will look , and the toad strangles you, when players on one piece pull hard also one  will groan, and remaining will stand idle for VoV it abruptly, and for  games - not abruptly? The lock siege in any  on one  is not abruptly? I simply do not understand, what exactly there such  the difficult.

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Re: Architecture game online

F> the same, what with a multithreading in a multithreading at you is not present a network time delay, and good possibilities on synchronization, and in a debugger  all system and if  in one  (and remaining auxiliary) - generally not fig determinism for a cluster all  which is written taking into account a time delay a client - server it well if on 2 is multiplied at you after all, actually, already and on the server is not present the world from one o'clock, and rollbacks become even more cheerful well or at you the world is rigidly cut and between  walks nothing but then you boring F> for VoV it abruptly, and for  games - not abruptly? F> the lock siege in any  on one  is not abruptly? F> I simply do not understand, what exactly there such  the difficult. I on myself measure, to any megabrain it not a problem generally

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Re: Architecture game online

Hello, koenig, you wrote: F>> the same, what with multithreading K> in a multithreading at you is not present a network time delay, and good possibilities on synchronization, and in a debugger  all system and if  in one  (and remaining auxiliary) - generally who servers  debugs not fig determinism?! Only broad gulls and  K> for a cluster all  which is written taking into account a time delay a client - server it well if on 2 is multiplied K> at you after all, actually, already and on the server there is no pattern from one o'clock, and rollbacks become even more cheerful of synch point at you all the same remain. For simplification still it is possible to make, that not game entities from different servers among themselves did not interact, but only with the player. K> well or at you the world is rigidly cut and between  walks nothing K> but then you boring even with cutting are interesting and cheerful games. But it generally is perpendicular.

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Re: Architecture game online

F>>> the same, what with multithreading K>> in a multithreading at you is not present a network time delay, and good possibilities on synchronization, and in a debugger  all system and if  in one  (and remaining auxiliary) - generally> who servers  debugs not fig determinism F?! Only broad gulls and  it more boringly and longer to be proud of that there was only this variant - it is not necessary,  K>> for a cluster all  which is written taking into account a time delay a client - server it well if on 2 is multiplied K>> at you after all, actually, already and on the server there is no pattern from one o'clock, and rollbacks become even more cheerful F> synch points at you all the same remain. And in what pleasure? Time delay are rollbacks and catching up events from the past each synch point fastened on a network are potential time delays if at you 1 server and there is no instant (more precisely very fast) the weapon rollbacks only on the client are necessary to you F> for simplification still it is possible to make, that not game entities from different servers among themselves did not interact, but only with the player. The fig  really someone such drives simplification on a network? There was a precedent?